Kapil Dev vs Courtney Walsh

[subshakerz]

Where do you come up with this ****?

We played the most in England, he averaged 39 in England.

Or was it too flat there as well?

He averaged 40 in Pakistan, though averaging a respectable 26 In India.

I like how you don't mention Kapil in WI as if it's irrelevant that it would be his home country.

And having an entire career in SC is a detriment to SC pacers. On top of that if was in the WI quartet his average and SR would naturally reduce.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Kapil's English and Pakistan records being termed as complete failures by just average reading is such lame superficial analysis.

Failed in NZ while Walsh destroyed us.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

. For instance, I will take Kapil over Walsh in the current India team easily.

I wouldn't. I know Ashwin has retired, but with Jadeja and one or two of Sundar/Reddy/Axar there is no need for Kapil's batting.

 

[kyear2]

Walsh averages 34 in Australia, Kapil 24...... Last BGT if Kapil plays, we also opt for another batsman in place of Jadeja.

On those pitches and conditions and against that batting lineup?

Really?

Sure.

There's no world or scenario where Kapil is an even comparable bowler to Walsh.

 

[kyear2]

I wouldn't. I know Ashwin has retired, but with Jadeja and one or two of Sundar/Reddy/Axar there is no need for Kapil's batting.

And again, if your disportionaly relying on your bowlers for runs, you have larger issues.

 

[CricAddict]

Test standard in my estimation is 40 +, anything below is borderline and we would replace you if we could.

Captain Luffy is talking about a practical test team's test standard. You are talking about a top fictional team's test standard.

How many teams currently have a top seven all averaging 40+?

 

[Fuller Pilch]

And again, if your disportionaly relying on your bowlers for runs, you have larger issues.

Definitely. An Indian attack with Bumrah and Walsh sharing the new ball could win anywhere - even NZ!

 

[kyear2]

Captain Luffy is talking about a practical test team's test standard. You are talking about a top fictional team's test standard.

How many teams currently have a top seven all averaging 40+?

Because teams have poor batsmen that filter in and out of the lineup. They aren't test standard just because they okay test cricket.

If you've averaging 28 rpi, you aren't a test standard batsman. You are well below par and not a good player.

 

[kyear2]

Definitely. An Indian attack with Bumrah and Walsh sharing the new ball could win anywhere - even NZ!

I don't even see the argument here.

Who's turning down Walsh as you best or 2nd best fast bowler for Kapil Dev.

No team is doing that.

 

[CricAddict]

Because teams have poor batsmen that filter in and out of the lineup. They aren't test standard just because they okay test cricket.

If you've averaging 28 rpi, you aren't a test standard batsman. You are well below par and not a good player.

But they are getting selected for tests for their batting and hence are test batsmen. So, they are average test batsmen but not test standard at your standard, which is what capt luffy also said.

 

[CricAddict]

Also, the selection of Walsh or Kapil in a lineup purely depends on the rest 9 players. If the batting lineup is strong enough, take Walsh. If you need beef there, take Kapil.

Same reason why Jadeja gets selected over Ashwin.

 

[kyear2]

But they are getting selected for tests for their batting and hence are test batsmen. So, they are average test batsmen but not test standard at your standard, which is what capt luffy also said.

Making an argument that a rpi of 28 would be somehow acceptable as a test batsman is kinda crazy.

But that's not even the most distressing part of all of this.

 

[CricAddict]

Making an argument that a rpi of 28 would be somehow acceptable as a test batsman is kinda crazy.

But that's not even the most distressing part of all of this.

I don't say it is acceptable. It is what it is. You can accuse KL Rahul for an average of 33 as much as you want and say that he is not test standard which he clearly is not but he continues to play tests as a test batsman.

And no one is taking Kapil as a batsman in their team. It is the utility he brings as a whole. Just like Jadeja.

 

[kyear2]

Also, the selection of Walsh or Kapil in a lineup purely depends on the rest 9 players. If the batting lineup is strong enough, take Walsh. If you need beef there, take Kapil.

Same reason why Jadeja gets selected over Ashwin.

If you need beef get better batsmen. You don't not select your best bowler to strengthen your batting.

It's not consistent and it's not moving the needle, especially since you just weakened your attack.

 

[ataraxia]

Kyear, the thing about lower-order batting is that it's so easy. You put Kapil Dev in, replace an average bowler, and you get 20 more runs per innings (and improved bowling).

If the bar for a test-standard batsman is 40 runs per innings, then to equal the improvement that Kapil's batting gives to a team you need to create the second best batsman of all time. That's rather difficult, in comparison.

 

[kyear2]

What bothers me the most in this entire scenario, is that they're posters on this forum that wouldn't select Kallis over Sachin in any team scenario. And the gap between Tendulkar's and Kallis's batting is less than than that between Walsh's and Kapil's.

And Kallis brings a legit 4th or 5th bowler and one of the 5 or so best slip fielders of this century.

I asked the question, if Sobers never bowled a delivery, for a normal test side, would we select Sobers or Tendulkar.

I have both as too 5 batsmen if all time, to be precise very much in the same tier with Sobers conventionally ranked two spots behind the little master. And Sobers is a top 5 slip fielder of all time, and wasn't mentioned, but top close in to the spinners.

It was lunacy, can't sacrifice Tendulkar's "superior" batting, even for a guy pretty much his equal who also happens to be a "slips fieldsman in the class of Hammond and Simpson"

But for a guy who is tiers below Walsh as a fast bowler, you would sacrifice who would likely be your best bowler, for that guy because he can bat. I mean, not test standard or anything, but yeah....

Away from India he averaged 32 with the ball and 26 with the bat. With a wpm of 3.2 and rpi of less than 25 and a rpm of 36.

 

[kyear2]

Kyear, the thing about lower-order batting is that it's so easy. You put Kapil Dev in, replace an average bowler, and you get 20 more runs per innings (and improved bowling).

If the bar for a test-standard batsman is 40 runs per innings, then to equal the improvement that Kapil's batting gives to a team you need to create the second best batsman of all time. That's rather difficult, in comparison.

But isn't Kapil an average bowler?

And in this scenario he's up against a much better one, so not sure what you're trying to say.

 

[ataraxia]

But isn't Kapil an average bowler?

And in this scenario he's up against a much better one, so not sure what you're trying to say.

Sure, let's say that Kapil replacing a team's worst frontline bowler offers zero bowling improvement – or decrease, they were both average. Based on those assumptions, he's still more valuable than Hobbs/Tendulkar, who are obviously both more valuable than Walsh. What do you say to that?

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Sure, let's say that Kapil replacing a team's worst frontline bowler offers zero bowling improvement – or decrease, they were both average. Based on those assumptions, he's still more valuable than Hobbs/Tendulkar, who are obviously both more valuable than Walsh. What do you say to that?

???

Kapil isn't much more valuable than Chris Cairns. There is no way he's more valuable than Hobbs/Tendulkar.

 

[Johan]

???

Kapil isn't much more valuable than Chris Cairns.

Random Kiwi Plug-in smh