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Jasprit Bumrah vs Waqar Younis

Who is the better test bowler?


  • Total voters
    30

Johan

International Regular
My point here exactly. Trueman was fine that series, Good actually. And he had one good series of Australia as well. But for an ATG, two merely good series away vs non minnows is likely way too low a ball.
He has 6 away tours due to political reasoning, four are very good, one is average and one is horrible (the dreaded Windies tour). Saying he doesn't have too much away from home makes sense and is a caveat similar to Lillee which I'd agree with, defining his career by 2 tests in windies at age of 22-23 against a supreme ATG batting lineup and on complete roads admist controversies, is not something I'm gonna agree with.
 

capt_Luffy

Cricketer Of The Year
He has 6 away tours due to political reasoning, four are very good, one is average and one is horrible (the dreaded Windies tour). Saying he doesn't have too much away from home makes sense and is a caveat similar to Lillee which I'd agree with, defining his career by 2 tests in windies at age of 22-23 against a supreme ATG batting lineup and on complete roads admist controversies, is not something I'm gonna agree with.
Me too, don't necessarily put much weight on those matches per se, though don't write them off completely as well as they atleast were partially responsible for him playing so few away (Hutton didn't feel confident about his bowling away). What I will say though, 2 of those 6 matches were in NZ, where just the conditions were familiar but MUCH more importantly, they were a horrible batting lineup, similar to present day WI. The 4 series he played away, firstly is a really small sample; but more importantly, he can overall be called just goodish in them. Nothing Great. That's my caveat, he has nothing sort of Great away from home.
 

DrWolverine

State Vice-Captain
Barrington averages 50+ in 6 out of 7 places he batted in. Averaged 44+ in WI with 3 centuries.

That's hella impressive.

The only flaw in his near perfect record is averaging 35 against WestIndies. Ken Barrington also averaged 50+ against 6 countries which is an extraordinary record.
 

OverratedSanity

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The only flaw in his near perfect record is averaging 35 against WestIndies. Ken Barrington also averaged 50+ against 6 countries which is an extraordinary record.
His bigger flaw is that he only had a 10 year career with all those matches presumably in the prime of his career, while most ATG batsmen have full 15+ years of batting output regardless of era.
 

Johan

International Regular
Me too, don't necessarily put much weight on those matches per se, though don't write them off completely as well as they atleast were partially responsible for him playing so few away (Hutton didn't feel confident about his bowling away). What I will say though, 2 of those 6 matches were in NZ, where just the conditions were familiar but MUCH more importantly, they were a horrible batting lineup, similar to present day WI. The 4 series he played away, firstly is a really small sample; but more importantly, he can overall be called just goodish in them. Nothing Great. That's my caveat, he has nothing sort of Great away from home.
Hutton was objectively biased in his assessment tbf, and there were personal problems between Hutton and Trueman that extended beyond the cricket field, something serious enough to get Trueman's good behaviour check blocked and to make them enemies for life so I won't put much stock in Hutton's judgement. I mean, Yeah I won't pretend that he is an ATG away from home but I don't think his numbers in Australia and Windies are a problem considering he performed in two very batter friendly tours (35.1RPW in Ashes 1962-63, 37.4RPW in 1960 Carribean trip), one against a very strong batting. Imo his away record isn't a big problem and doesn't make him overrated.
 

sayon basak

International Vice-Captain
His bigger flaw is that he only had a 10 year career with all those matches presumably in the prime of his career, while most ATG batsmen have full 15+ years of batting output regardless of era.
That is actually a good point. I feel like Barrington Overachieved in tests. His non-test FC average was 43.
still underrated tho.
 

sayon basak

International Vice-Captain
The only flaw in his near perfect record is averaging 35 against WestIndies. Ken Barrington also averaged 50+ against 6 countries which is an extraordinary record.
How many batters are there who averages 50+ in more countries? Younis, Sangakkara and Dravid are some names that come to mind.
 

capt_Luffy

Cricketer Of The Year
Hutton was objectively biased in his assessment tbf, and there were personal problems between Hutton and Trueman that extended beyond the cricket field, something serious enough to get Trueman's good behaviour check blocked and to make them enemies for life so I won't put much stock in Hutton's judgement. I mean, Yeah I won't pretend that he is an ATG away from home but I don't think his numbers in Australia and Windies are a problem considering he performed in two very batter friendly tours (35.1RPW in Ashes 1962-63, 37.4RPW in 1960 Carribean trip), one against a very strong batting. Imo his away record isn't a big problem and doesn't make him overrated.
I think they overall are quite lackluster se ATG standards.
 

Bolo.

International Captain
And assuming the 34cm vs 7cm release point again, Bumrah's fastest delivery of 153.26 kmph would feel like 155.5 kmph from a regular pacer. Even if Waqar bowled faster than 153 kmph, it's fair to say it wouldn't be way faster than 156 kmph.

153.26*20/(20-0.27)= 155.5

Now you're not gonna say that Waqar bowled at 160 kmph, right?
I'm not claiming to know what speed Waqar hit. I highly, highly doubt it was 160 though.

I think that pre injury he was typically faster than Bumrah. And his fastest ball was quicker than Bumrah. And that, Bumrah's release point notwithstanding, the ball generally arrived at the bat quicker. Waqar released low and pitched full. Less vertical distance to travel and less energy lost off the pitch.
 

DrWolverine

State Vice-Captain
His bigger flaw is that he only had a 10 year career with all those matches presumably in the prime of his career, while most ATG batsmen have full 15+ years of batting output regardless of era.
Barrington had a late start to his career. He played 2 Tests in 1955 and then played his next match in 1959 when he was 29 years old. I would say if he did not miss his prime years, he would have had an ever better record and remembered more fondly.
 

DrWolverine

State Vice-Captain
Barrington played 2 Tests in 1955. Then came back in 1959 and played till 1968.


Barrington's peak waa 61-67
His entire career was just a peak
1959 : Avg of 59 in 5 Tests
1960 : Avg of 43 in 9 Tests
1968 : Avg of 46 in 8 Tests
 

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