Jasprit Bumrah vs Waqar Younis

[Johan]

Not sure about Fred Trueman

Great record in England(Avg of 20) and NZ(Avg of 14)

Mediocre record in Australia(Avg of 27) and WI(Avg of 32)

his "failiure" in West Indies is 2 tests at the age of 22 against one of the greatest batting lineups ever on absolute flatties, the next time around he outbowled everyone including Wes Hall in another flat series.

his aus record is the only thing that can really be treated as a Caveat but even there is context but if 27 is a caveat, I want people to keep the same energy for Steyn.

 

[sayon basak]

his "failiure" in West Indies is 2 tests at the age of 22 against one of the greatest batting lineups ever on absolute flatties, the next time around he outbowled everyone including Wes Hall in another flat series.

his aus record is the only thing that can really be treated as a Caveat but even there is context but if 27 is a caveat, I want people to keep the same energy for Steyn.

Lindwall was much better across conditions, I could make a case for Trueman<Lindwall.

 

[capt_Luffy]

his "failiure" in West Indies is 2 tests at the age of 22 against one of the greatest batting lineups ever on absolute flatties, the next time around he outbowled everyone including Wes Hall in another flat series.

his aus record is the only thing that can really be treated as a Caveat but even there is context.

Eh, won't necessarily saying outbowled. Hall got 22@31, him 21@26, Ramadhin 17@29 (in 1 less match), Statham 10@28 (in 2 less matches). Overall, he was the best bowler, but it certainly was no Great series and he wasn't hugely better than the others.

 

[Johan]

Lindwall was much better across conditions, I could make a case for Trueman<Lindwall.

No Idea how this refutes my point.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Lindwall was much better across conditions, I could make a case for Trueman<Lindwall.

Lindwall>Trueman definitely imo.

 

[h_hurricane]

You are actually the one who is stupid for calling out someone mentioning Waqar was quicker than Bumrah. Bumrah isn’t as fast as Waqar. Just let anyone outside Pak or Ind answer this question and you would be fool for calling someone out when mentioning Waqar was quicker than Bumrah.

He is. I would be surprised if Waqar is faster than Nitish Reddy these days.

 

[Bolo.]

Might be true. Not important for my point.

You are assuming this 154/5 was the fastest he ever bowled. If he wasn't clocked most of the time, his fastest probably wasn't clocked either.

 

[sayon basak]

Lindwall>Trueman definitely imo.

I mean, I am a bit biased towards Trueman myself.

 

[Johan]

Eh, won't necessarily saying outbowled. Hall got 22@31, him 21@26, Ramadhin 17@29 (in 1 less match), Statham 10@28 (in 2 less matches). Overall, he was the best bowler, but it certainly was no Great series.

Statham missed the first test which was a complete flattie, so that probably helps and his SR was 78 which is high even for the era. Hall averaged 31 so decisively inferior, don't really know how to take Ramadhin in here but Trueman was still decisively superior average wise (26.14 vs 28.88, more wickets in less overs).26 in 60s Windies is fine imo, the RPW of the series was 37.4.

 

[sayon basak]

You are assuming this 154/5 was the fastest he ever bowled. If he wasn't clocked most of the time, his fastest probably wasn't clocked either.

You have zero reason to assume otherwise.
It'd be like assuming that Thomson bowled 175/180 kmph because all of his deliveries were not measured by speedguns.

 

[centurymaker]

4/15 vs McSweeney
4/17 vs Khawaja
3/20 vs Smith
2/6 vs Labuchagne

crazy.

 

[DrWolverine]

but if 27 is a caveat, I want people to keep the same energy for Steyn.

Steyn

UAE : 32 in 4 Tests
SL : 30 in 6 Tests
Aus : 28.7 in 7 Tests
Eng : 31 in 5 Tests

Steyn was quite similar to Donald - On song he was very good but on his off day he could leak a lot of runs. McGrath or Ambrose may not be as effective as Steyn on useless pitches but even at their worst(generally speaking) did not leak runs like Donald & Steyn.

 

[sayon basak]

You are assuming this 154/5 was the fastest he ever bowled. If he wasn't clocked most of the time, his fastest probably wasn't clocked either.

And assuming the 34cm vs 7cm release point again, Bumrah's fastest delivery of 153.26 kmph would feel like 155.5 kmph from a regular pacer. Even if Waqar bowled faster than 153 kmph, it's fair to say it wouldn't be way faster than 156 kmph.

153.26*20/(20-0.27)= 155.5

Now you're not gonna say that Waqar bowled at 160 kmph, right?

 

[sayon basak]

his aus record is the only thing that can really be treated as a Caveat but even there is context but if 27 is a caveat, I want people to keep the same energy for Steyn.

He was tested in very few conditions, and was completely unproven in SC.

 

[DrWolverine]

He was tested in very few conditions, and was completely unproven in SC.

I was surprised he won against Ken Barrington in a recent poll. Barrington has one of the best away records for a batsman.

 

[sayon basak]

McGrath or Ambrose may not be as effective as Steyn on useless pitches but even at their worst(generally speaking) did not leak runs like Donald & Steyn.

That's the thing with strike bowlers. They are gonna leak runs at times.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Statham missed the first test which was a complete flattie, so that probably helps and his SR was 78 which is high even for the era. Hall averaged 31 so decisively inferior, don't really know how to take Ramadhin in here but Trueman was still decisively superior average wise (26.14 vs 28.88, more wickets in less overs).26 in 60s Windies is fine imo, the RPW of the series was 37.4.

My point here exactly. Trueman was fine that series, Good actually. And he had one good series of Australia as well. But for an ATG, two merely good series away vs non minnows is likely way too low a ball.

 

[sayon basak]

I was surprised he won against Ken Barrington in a recent poll. Barrington has one of the best away records for a batsman.

It shouldn't be a surprise tho. Trueman in general is rated a lot higher than Barrington.

Personally think Barrington vs Trueman is close; unlike the poll suggested.

 

[sayon basak]

Barrington averages 50+ in 6 out of 7 places he batted in. Averaged 44+ in WI with 3 centuries.

That's hella impressive.

 

[Johan]

He was tested in very few conditions, and was completely unproven in SC.

It's completely unknowable how he'd do in 60s India and Pakistan but the batting lineups weren't particularly threatening anyway, and Trueman is proven on flatties. many pacers from the era wrecked India and Pakistan who were all vastly inferior to Trueman, I won't say it's much of a caveat.