Jasprit Bumrah vs Malcolm Marshall

[subshakerz]

Sobers and Hutton did ...... Peer rating is thrash largely and people use it here mostly for agenda (I do too, but only for Trumper).

Yeah but Sobers and Hutton didn't play Gavaskar so I don't care what they think.

Lillee and Holding actually bowled against Gavaskar and didn't really rate him that highly. If your top competition consistently rates one ahead of the other, that isn't something to be ignored.

 

[centurymaker]

Sachin is slightly ahead of Viv. But not a tier above.

 

[DrWolverine]

Martin Crowe rated Sunil Gavaskar as the best batsman of his generation ahead of Viv and Greg.

Gary Sobers rated Sunil Gavaskar as the greatest batsman hailing for his achievements especially facing some of the most hostile fast bowlers.

Imran Khan rated Sunil Gavaskar higher than even Sachin saying his contribution was more than what his actual record showed.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Yeah but Sobers and Hutton didn't play Gavaskar so I don't care what they think.

Lillee and Holding actually bowled against Gavaskar and didn't really rate him that highly. If your top competition consistently rates one ahead of the other, that isn't something to be ignored.

Gavaskar scored like what, atleast 5 centuries against Holding, including a 236*. He never even played against Viv, so that's questionable. Lillee played against Gavaskar for 3 matches and in which Gavaskar was mostly off till a 70 in the last run chase. IIRC, Wasim did rate Gavaskar the best he bowled to ever (but IIRC, he also did that for Viv).

 

[subshakerz]

Martin Crowe rated Sunil Gavaskar as the best batsman of his generation ahead of Viv and Greg.

Gary Sobers rated Sunil Gavaskar as the greatest batsman hailing for his achievements especially facing some of the most hostile fast bowlers.

Imran Khan rated Sunil Gavaskar higher than even Sachin saying his contribution was more than what his actual record showed.

Outlier opinions IMO.

 

[centurymaker]

I actually rate Viv slightly ahead of Sobers.

 

[subshakerz]

Gavaskar scored like what, atleast 5 centuries against Holding, including a 236*. He never even played against Viv, so that's questionable. Lillee played against Gavaskar for 3 matches and in which Gavaskar was mostly off till a 70 in the last run chase. IIRC, Wasim did rate Gavaskar the best he bowled to ever (but IIRC, he also did that for Viv).

Holding considered Gavaskar a fair weather bat.

Gavaskar had a low scoring series overall against Lillee as you know.

And Wasim rated Crowe as the most difficult batsmen he faced.

 

[Bolo.]

Steyn had the extra gear when he kicked it up. Especially for his reverse spells.

Ya, he was still very fast when he chose to be until his last few tests, but he usually opted for slower channel bowling a lot.

 

[subshakerz]

I actually rate Viv slightly ahead of Sobers.

I go back and forth between them.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Holding considered Gavaskar a fair weather bat.

Gavaskar had a low scoring series overall against Lillee as you know.

And Wasim rated Crowe as the most difficult batsmen he faced.

Wasim actually rated Gavaskar, Crowe and Viv, all 3 at different interviews the best he faced. Re Holding, Gavaskar did accused him of hurling intentional beamers at him consistently in Kingston (alongside yk, saying the crowd belongs to jungle). Doesn't leads to much comradery after that I suppose. But overall, I don't think it can be denied that Viv>Gavaskar is a pretty much consensus about peers. But I will argue, so is Lillee>Hadlee. Viv and Lillee just where box-office more imo.

 

[kyear2]

For the 2000's where Sachin was the best batsman in the world.

127 matches @ 52.22, let's not omit averaging 136 vs Bang and 101 vs Zim.

Kallis, the one Subz says isn't in the same league as Tendulkar and who he ranks close to 20th.
134 matches @ 58.66

Ponting, the one everyone puts down as a flat track bully who capitalized on flat pitches.
135 matches @ 53.48

Even Haydos, the flat track bully.
96 matches @ 52.93

Sangakkara
135 matches @ 57.40

Like Hobbs, where he legacy was built before WWI. Sachin's, like Lara's legacies were built in the 90's when these runs meant something.

Hell Yousuf had 75 matches @ 56.

The 20's, the 30's and the 2000's.

So easy home pitches, a dead era that lasted over a decade and a healthy dose of minnows.

 

[DrWolverine]

Sunil Gavaskar’s centuries against ATG pacers
1976 - Andy Roberts & Michael Holding
1976 - Michael Holding
1976 - Richard Hadlee(young)
1978 - Imran Khan
1978 - Imran Khan
1980 - Imran Khan
1983 - Imran Khan
1983 - Roberts, Holding, Marshall & Garner
1983 - Marshall & Holding
1983 - Marshall & Holding

Sunny also scored multiple centuries against the super fast Jeff Thomson, Bob Willis, peak Ian Botham etc. No batsman has scored more centuries against quality pacers than him. He did it in an era with lack of protective equipment and yet someone play say he didn’t do much.

 

[subshakerz]

Ya, he was still very fast when he chose to be until his last few tests, but he usually opted for slower channel bowling a lot.

Yes upon recollection Steyn in his new ball spells was consistently in the 135 Goldilock zone.

Him cranking it to 140s was very situation specific. Normally when the pitch was flat and later in the day.

This is an example of one of his faster spells in his peak and it has everything to do with the pitch having flattened at that point.

 

[Patience and Accuracy+Gut]

Gavaskar scored like what, atleast 5 centuries against Holding, including a 236*. He never even played against Viv, so that's questionable. Lillee played against Gavaskar for 3 matches and in which Gavaskar was mostly off till a 70 in the last run chase. IIRC, Wasim did rate Gavaskar the best he bowled to ever (but IIRC, he also did that for Viv).

Lillee and Gavasker did face for 5 more matches when World Xi toured Australia in 1970-71. Gavasker didn’t really do great there too against Lillee. 257 runs @28.55.

 

[DrWolverine]

But overall, I don't think it can be denied that Viv>Gavaskar is a pretty much consensus about peers. But I will argue, so is Lillee>Hadlee.

Viv and Lillee just where box-office more imo.

This

Akram has more peer acclaim than McGrath & Ambrose as well

 

[subshakerz]

For the 2000's where Sachin was the best batsman in the world.

127 matches @ 52.22, let's not omit averaging 136 vs Bang and 101 vs Zim.

Kallis, the one Subz says isn't in the same league as Tendulkar and who he ranks close to 20th.
134 matches @ 58.66

Ponting, the one everyone puts down as a flat track bully who capitalized on flat pitches.
135 matches @ 53.48

Even Haydos, the flat track bully.
96 matches @ 52.93

Sangakkara
135 matches @ 57.40

Like Hobbs, where he legacy was built before WWI. Sachin's, like Lara's legacies were built in the 90's when these runs meant something.

Hell Yousuf had 75 matches @ 56.

The 20's, the 30's and the 2000's.

So easy home pitches, a dead era that lasted over a decade and a healthy dose of minnows.

So Sachin kept scoring in a flat 2000s era after scoring in a non-flat 1990s era.

Wow how humiliating for Sachin.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Sachin between 1992-99:

61 matches, 5224 @60.74


Lara: 64 m, 5522 @52.11
Steve Waugh: 81 m, 6062 @57.2 (25 not outs)
Ponting: 34 m, 2223 @43.51
Kallis: 33m, 1954 @42.47

Look, if someone wants to rate Richards higher for his peak, then fine. Do it. It hardly is unreasonable imo, to think Sachin has clearer case for best since Don.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Lillee and Gavasker did face for 5 more matches when World Xi toured Australia in 1970-71. Gavasker didn’t really do great there too against Lillee. 257 runs @28.55.

IIRC, that was Gavaskar's 3rd series at international level. Before he only played in WI (against a weak attack, Great series though) and England (mid as this).

 

[subshakerz]

Sachin between 1992-99:

61 matches, 5224 @60.74


Lara: 64 m, 5522 @52.11
Steve Waugh: 81 m, 6062 @57.2 (25 not outs)
Ponting: 34 m, 2223 @43.51
Kallis: 33m, 1954 @42.47

Look, if someone wants to rate Richards higher for his peak, then fine. Do it. It hardly is unreasonable imo, to think Sachin has clearer case for best since Don.

Dude Kyear himself puts Sachin ahead of Viv in his order. He is just wasting our time with needless points.

I have Sachin, Viv, Sobers and Hobbs as equals in the same tier (as the best after Bradman) and rate them by the strength of bowlers faced, hence the order.

 

[subshakerz]

This

Akram has more peer acclaim than McGrath & Ambrose as well

Nah it's simplistic to just reduce it to box office.

Lillee definitely had showmanship on his side but the fact is he debuted and cemented his reputation as the best fast bowler in the world more than five years before the other bowlers who were all inspired by him. If they were direct contemporaries, there would be less consensus for Lillee.

Viv had an actual fear factor that numerous bowlers have given testimonial towards which is why they rated him so high. Imran said he was scared bowling to Viv. It's not just about being entertaining.