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Jacques Kallis vs Kumar Sangakkara ( as Test batsmen )

Who was the greater Test batsman?

  • Sangakkara

  • Kallis


Results are only viewable after voting.

subshakerz

International Coach
This poll is an indictment of CWs collective judgement. You have two bats of comparable stats and records yet one who is outright more aggressive and dominant, yet posters choose to go with the dour bat and defy actual gameplay.
 

subshakerz

International Coach
Smith was incredibly lucky in his 2017 India tour. Dropped 5 or 6 times. Survived a few close LBWs. And genuinely played and missed 30+ times during his hundred in 4th Test.

See how his subsequent tour of India in 2023 ended. His highest score was just 38 runs across 4 tests. He couldn't score.

1 great tour followed by 1 absolute miserable tour. Luck balanced out. So let's not overrate individual series. See the whole picture. Bigger the sample size the better.
Sorry, this is nitpicking. There isn't any other series against Ashwin Jadeja comparable to Smith 2017.
 

kyear2

International Coach
Smith was incredibly lucky in his 2017 India tour. Dropped 5 or 6 times. Survived a few close LBWs. And genuinely played and missed 30+ times during his hundred in 4th Test.

See how his subsequent tour of India in 2023 ended. His highest score was just 38 runs across 4 tests. He couldn't score.

1 great tour followed by 1 absolute miserable tour. Luck balanced out. So let's not overrate individual series. See the whole picture. Bigger the sample size the better.
Apparently easier than they believe to get caught up in the moment when you're watching in real time.
 

kyear2

International Coach
This poll is an indictment of CWs collective judgement. You have two bats of comparable stats and records yet one who is outright more aggressive and dominant, yet posters choose to go with the dour bat and defy actual gameplay.
What are the other variables? Home pitches, that's what I see as the differentiating factor. Everyone will see it differently. There's a reason why most don't have Sanga top 10 all time.

Plus, we all know how you feel about Kallis (and a few more)
 

centurymaker

Cricketer Of The Year
Sorry, this is nitpicking. There isn't any other series against Ashwin Jadeja comparable to Smith 2017.
He got the crucial centuries and runs thats the bottom line, yes, so he had a great series but it is somewhat balanced out by his subsequent series where he barely scored any runs. Had he scored some runs in 2023, Australia may have won the 2nd Test in Delhi and may have won the series too. But he didn't score at all.

So I am looking at his overall record in Indian conditions not individual series.
 

subshakerz

International Coach
What are the other variables? Home pitches, that's what I see as the differentiating factor. Everyone will see it differently. There's a reason why most don't have Sanga top 10 all time.

Plus, we all know how you feel about Kallis (and a few more)
Home pitches would literally make Kallis better than almost all SC bats by default, also Ponting, Smith and anyone else who had it easier at home. How far can you take that argument?

If the argument is that Kallis is better than Sanga at playing pace and swing, that would make more sense, though seeing Sanga against Bond tells me that isn't the case.
 

capt_Luffy

International Captain
Smith was incredibly lucky in his 2017 India tour. Dropped 5 or 6 times. Survived a few close LBWs. And genuinely played and missed 30+ times during his hundred in 4th Test.

See how his subsequent tour of India in 2023 ended. His highest score was just 38 runs across 4 tests. He couldn't score.

1 great tour followed by 1 absolute miserable tour. balanced out. So let's not overrate individual series. See the whole picture. Bigger the sample size the better.
It would be great if Ponting could had managed a similar "lucky" series in India; or anywhere away with comparable bowling for that matter. I can't believe I am doing a Smith vs Ponting now....
 

Bolo.

International Captain
Sorry but this is a bit unfair on Sanga. Yes, plenty of runs against Bangladesh, but his doubles also include a classic in Pakistan against Shoaib, a matchsaving one in UAE against Ajmal, one in NZ too. Contrast that with Kallis who only has two at home against Ind/SL attacks.

Also, Sanga's ratio of hundreds overall is pretty much equal to Kallis I believe. He just was more capable of piling on more which along with his aggression made him a bigger threat frankly
Finding a game against a strong attack, a game where they needed most of his runs and a game where??? does nothing at all to refute the points that his runs were typically against weak attacks and overkill for results. I'm not claiming all of them.

I didn't claim that doubles other than Kallis were more typically wanker runs.

Insert whatever arbitrary numbers you want in. The point is that huge scores are less likely to be beneficial than more good scores
 

ma1978

International Debutant
5 years isn't just, am I right? It's idiotic to overlook that. Also, he averaged 60 or not, my main criticisms of him would had still persisted.
Clearly you weren’t around, for a long time when Ponting, Sachin and Lara overlapped, Ponting was the best.

Hes not Sachin (virtually no one is) but other than Sachin and than Lara, Ponting is the most complete, intimidating batsman I’ve seen.

Anyone who underrates him didn’t watch him bat.
 

capt_Luffy

International Captain
Clearly you weren’t around, for a long time when Ponting, Sachin and Lara overlapped, Ponting was the best.

Hes not Sachin (virtually no one is) but other than Sachin and than Lara, Ponting is the most complete, intimidating batsman I’ve seen.

Anyone who underrates him didn’t watch him bat.
Then Sehwag is an ATG? Right??? I can't think of any batsman more intimidating than Viru; so he surely has to be the best and much better than the likes of the slowpokes Hutton or Gavaskar? Ponting has no ATG series away; and he was very vulnerable against good spinners in any bit of turners. Wasn't particularly good against swing as well. He was good on a flat track and good in bouncy pitches; but that doesn't pushes him above Sanga and Kallis.
 

ma1978

International Debutant
Then Sehwag is an ATG? Right??? I can't think of any batsman more intimidating than Viru; so he surely has to be the best and much better than the likes of the slowpokes Hutton or Gavaskar? Ponting has no ATG series away; and he was very vulnerable against good spinners in any bit of turners. Wasn't particularly good against swing as well. He was good on a flat track and good in bouncy pitches; but that doesn't pushes him above Sanga and Kallis.
Did you ever watch him play?
 

ma1978

International Debutant
Short answer or long answer?? Short is yes. Long is that doesn't count. The real answer is doesn't matters. He doesn't have nowhere a good record anything close to Steve Smith.
At this stage of his career, he had a much better track record and of course you could cherry pick individual series etc but that’s not sound. He also played at a high standard for longer and achieved more.
 

capt_Luffy

International Captain
At this stage of his career, he had a much better track record and of course you could cherry pick individual series etc but that’s not sound. He also played at a high standard for longer and achieved more.
High standard of those flat beds and those dangerous line-ups with England having Flintoff as the best ball, Kumble being India's almost sole ball, South Africa being carried by Pollock and the extremely mid attacks of New Zealand and post Wasim Pakistan. Cherry pick some individual away tours of Ponting then; show us how good of a player of spin he was. Or of swing.
 

Coronis

International Coach
You should re read some of the above comments.

While you may have been an exception there were many who believed that he entered the conversation, and that's because he did. While how his career ended should be and is factored in to his overall rating, it doesn't take away from what he was during that time.

If Smith continues his struggles, would that take away from his earlier exploits? Did Viv's? I think I have him in the 12ish range which I believe is accurate enough.
But its crazy to rate Viv around there.
 

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