Jacques Kallis vs Kumar Sangakkara ( as Test batsmen )

[PlayerComparisons]

Yes Ponting never had a great series in England or India which are the most important series for Australian cricketers. His record in SA isn’t that impressive either considering the attacks and pitches on those tours.

 

[subshakerz]

If Smith continues his struggles, would that take away from his earlier exploits? Did Viv's?

Yes and yes.

 

[centurymaker]

Smith's average is 56.97 after only 109 Tests.
Ponting's avg was 59.38 after 109 Tests

 

[honestbharani]

No one's saying he was as good, but he was surely in the conversation.

Why does everyone refuse to acknowledge that the guy was seriously good.

Coz there are posts here from 2006 where the same was discussed and clearly pointed out that he was not as good.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Smith's average is 56.97 after only 109 Tests.
Ponting's avg was 59.38 after 109 Tests

Average without context here. Smith scored those runs in much tougher pitches, and he actually had ATG series in both India (the best touring one ever) and England (argument for best after Bradman).

 

[centurymaker]

If Smith was to play till age 38 and finish on 150 Tests and he would end up averaging 51/52 in all likelihood.

If Smith avgs around 40 over his next 40 tests, he career average would come down to 51 point something. If Smith avgs 45 over the next 40 Tests, his career avg come down to 53 something.

Meanwhile, Ponting's avg after 150 Tests was 54.27

 

[subshakerz]

Coz there are posts here from 2006 where the same was discussed and clearly pointed out that he was not as good.

So because some posters had that opinion in 2006 doesn't mean that fast forward to today, a lot more posters would be rating Ponting higher.

 

[capt_Luffy]

If Smith was to play till age 38 and finish on 150 Tests and he would end up averaging 51/52 in all likelihood.

If Smith avgs around 40 over his next 40 tests, he career average would come down to 51 point something. If Smith avgs 45 over the next 40 Tests, his career avg come down to 53 something.

Meanwhile, Ponting's avg after 150 Tests was 54.27

As I already stated; even if after 150 Tests Smith averages sub 50, he would be a tier above Ponting by a no brainer.

 

[subshakerz]

As I already stated; even if after 150 Tests Smith averages sub 50, he would be a tier above Ponting by a no brainer.

If Smith ends up averaging 47 is he a serious contender for best after Bradman?

 

[centurymaker]

Average without context here. Smith scored those runs in much tougher pitches, and he actually had ATG series in both India (the best touring one ever) and England (argument for best after Bradman).

I remember the pitches when he was averaging 70+ each year.

2014–15 Border-Gavaskar Trophy - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Kohli got 692 runs
Smith got 769 runs

So please don't mention pitches. Ever since the pitches have improved in Australia, he's declined. And based on 1-2 away series you have decided to rate him ahead of someone who played 168 Tests?

 

[capt_Luffy]

I remember the pitches when he was averaging 70+ each year.

2014–15 Border-Gavaskar Trophy - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Kohli got 692 runs
Smith got 769 runs

So please don't mention pitches. Ever since the pitches have improved in Australia, he's declined. And based on 1-2 away series you have decided to rate him ahead of someone who played 168 Tests?

Now check the stats of the 2017 away series. That was by far some of the worst turners ever. And while you're at it, also for the 2019 one. Australian pitches in Smith's time were still tougher than Ponting's; and let me not mention everywhere else. And then the bowling attacks in the 2000s on top....

 

[subshakerz]

I remember the pitches when he was averaging 70+ each year.

2014–15 Border-Gavaskar Trophy - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Kohli got 692 runs
Smith got 769 runs

So please don't mention pitches. Ever since the pitches have improved in Australia, he's declined. And based on 1-2 away series you have decided to rate him ahead of someone who played 168 Tests?

I think Smith is better than Ponting but Smith absolutely fattened his record on flat home pitches.

Now check the stats of the 2017 away series. That was by far some of the worst turners ever. And while you're at it, also for the 2019 one. Australian pitches in Smith's time were still tougher than Ponting's; and let me not mention everywhere else. And then the bowling attacks in the 2000s on top....

No. Plus Smith faced some pretty dire attacks. Both Ponting and Smith benefitted from this.

 

[capt_Luffy]

If Smith ends up averaging 47 is he a serious contender for best after Bradman?

Nope. He won't. And sub 50 I went around what Kohli 's pulling, i.e., he would average around Viv and would be in his tier.

 

[subshakerz]

Nope. He won't. And sub 50 I went around what Kohli 's pulling, i.e., he would average around Viv and would be in his tier.

Then what are we arguing about exactly? Let's go back to Kallis vs Sanga.

 

[honestbharani]

Like I said, only idiots who dont watch the game would rate people based on scorecards.

 

[subshakerz]

Like I said, only idiots who dont watch the game would rate people based on scorecards.

We are all guilty of that to a certain extent with much older players. Hence why I prefer taking peer rating and other factors into account.

 

[kyear2]

Like I said, only idiots who dont watch the game would rate people based on scorecards.

Thing is I didn't follow score cards, or wasn't on forums, I just watched the guy and was in amazement as to what he was doing.

At that time Sachin and Lara were both in the best after Bradman convo and it was apparent that Ponting was going to average more than both. I didn't think he was better, but his record was better than BCL's for sure and I knew how it would be viewed. He just kept scoring runs, well until he didn't of course.

 

[subshakerz]

Thing is I didn't follow score cards, or wasn't on forums, I just watched the guy and was in amazement as to what he was doing.

At that time Sachin and Lara were both in the best after Bradman convo and it was apparent that Ponting was going to average more than both. I didn't think he was better, but his record was better than BCL's for sure and I knew how it would be viewed. He just kept scoring runs, well until he didn't of course.

Ponting had an aura for sure at the time comparable to Lara and Tendulkar at their peaks.

 

[centurymaker]

And that's widely due to his success away; especially series like 2017 India or 2019 Ashes; which Ponting has none comparable.

Now check the stats of the 2017 away series. That was by far some of the worst turners ever. And while you're at it, also for the 2019 one.

Smith was incredibly lucky in his 2017 India tour. Dropped 5 or 6 times. Survived a few close LBWs. And genuinely played and missed 30+ times during his hundred in 4th Test.

See how his subsequent tour of India in 2023 ended. His highest score was just 38 runs across 4 tests. He couldn't score.

1 great tour followed by 1 absolute miserable tour. balanced out. So let's not overrate individual series. See the whole picture. Bigger the sample size the better.

 

[kyear2]

Ponting had an aura for sure at the time comparable to Lara and Tendulkar at their peaks.

He really did. I feared him more than I did any other opposing batsman. Wasn't even close really.