Jacques Kallis vs Imran Khan

[subshakerz]

Thought you were coming after me for saying I rate Kallis's catching over Imran's captaincy

Nah that's fair. Captaincy is harder to rate.

No hard feelings sir.

 

[ataraxia]

Imran has the edge in primary skills, though closer than some are saying. I rank Imran somewhere between 6th and 8th and Kallis somewhere in the mid teens. I disliked his style and found it a bit selfish, but his record is impressive, especially on home pitches.

Imran takes the win in the secondary role more comfortably, though not a run away. Kallis could be handful in the right conditions and when he wanted to.

Kallis takes the tertiary skill, he was truly one of the all time greats in the cordon. He was safe and surprisingly mobile for a big man.

So Imran

6th to 8th? I'd agree a lot more with 1st than that

 

[kyear2]

6th to 8th? I'd agree a lot more with 1st than that

Ok

 

[Adorable Asshole]

I have repeatedly said I don't hate Imran, that's your perception of it.
Nothing has changed, it's hard to rate that next tier of guys, Donald, Imran, Garner, Lillee, Trueman, Holding, Davidson. That's probably the order today, but it changes

Thought you were coming after me for saying I rate Kallis's catching over Imran's captaincy

Imran is significantly better than all of them except Donald and maybe Garner. Also Davidson is better than Lillee and Trueman and Holding.

 

[Patience and Accuracy+Gut]

I have repeatedly said I don't hate Imran, that's your perception of it.
Nothing has changed, it's hard to rate that next tier of guys, Donald, Imran, Garner, Lillee, Trueman, Holding, Davidson. That's probably the order today, but it changes

Thought you were coming after me for saying I rate Kallis's catching over Imran's captaincy

I would add Lindwall in that group.

 

[shortpitched713]

Imran makes top 10 easily (even higher when considering captaincy), whereas I still don't know quite where I'd place Kallis. But not inside top 10, that much I know.

So changing my vote to Imran, as I think there is a bit of separation here between them.

 

[Slifer]

Imran is significantly better than all of them except Donald and maybe Garner. Also Davidson is better than Lillee and Trueman and Holding.

Debatable

 

[Jumno]

Kallis was a pure batsman and was a pace bowler

Imran could bat and a very good fast bowler

Imran for me

 

[Gob]

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lol bye

 

[Archer6K]

Amazing information. I really enjoyed reading this thread and discussion by the people. As someone who is involved in this Live Cricket for many years, I would like to Refer Webcric.org. It’s not only focused on discussing the topic inside out but also “Benefits”. Hope everybody enjoys watching and reading the blog.

Please stop spamming.

 

[Cricket Bliss]

I'm actually surprised to see Kallis has even 5 votes out of the 20 cast to date. This shouldn't be even close. Imran comfortably....

Don’t overrate Imran… of course he is great, so does Kallis
People argue like Kallis averages 40 with the bat, but it is 55! which is exceptional, that too he averages 58 in India and 83 in Pakistan (of course not much revered in Sri Lanka)…. for a SENA batsmen performing such in sub continent conditions is exceptional

 

[Cricket Bliss]

A major fact being ignored is that Imran actually won matches.

Kallis actually single handedly won the 1998 Knockout Trophy
Man of the Match in the Finals and Semi Finals… Leading Wicket taker and the second leading run scorer. Imran didn’t win the World Cup Alone!

 

[Socerer 01]

Don’t overrate Imran… of course he is great, so does Kallis
People argue like Kallis averages 40 with the bat, but it is 55! which is exceptional, that too he averages 58 in India and 83 in Pakistan (of course not much revered in Sri Lanka)…. for a SENA batsmen performing such in sub continent conditions is exceptional

@subshakerz

 

[Coronis]

Yeah Kallis was definitely a better allround matchwinner.

Kallis in wins:
6379 @ 62.53, 22/45 tons, 182 @ 24.51, 4/5 5’fers

Imran in wins:
900 @ 36.00, 1/6 tons, 155 @ 14.50, 11/23 5’fers

Both had about 50% of their big performances in wins in their primary skill, but almost all of Kallis’ bowling highlights came in wins, whilst Imran’s batting highlights were in draws.

One of the rare batsmen like Sunny whose average goes down in wins.

 

[Cricket Bliss]

To me Hadlee is a bit off the pace because his batting just isn't really at a level to properly put him in the all-rounders conversation.

The case for him being a better PLAYER than the likes of Kallis seems to rest on his bowling being elevated to a distinctly higher tier than Kallis, somewhere around about GOAT level. This is not something I've ever entirely understood, if only because Hadlee is from NZ and lord knows our pitches used to do a bit.

Hadlee’s batting can definitely be considered as in an all-round conversation. He averages 27 and 21 respectively in Tests and ODIs that too playing in the 70s. He averages easily better than Ashwin (im not saying he is better in batting than Ashwin). But to average better than Ashwin on difficult conditions of the 70s in the New Zealand wickets is any day a revered achievement to include him in the discussion of all time great all rounders ever. Playing in Today’s conditions i think he will average around 30 with the bat in Tests and around 26-27 in ODI (quite speculative) and to have such with the bat along with near GOAT status in bowling definitely makes him a gem of an all rounder. He is better than Imran in bowling

 

[kyear2]

Hadlee’s batting can definitely be considered as in an all-round conversation. He averages 27 and 21 respectively in Tests and ODIs that too playing in the 70s. He averages easily better than Ashwin (im not saying he is better in batting than Ashwin). But to average better than Ashwin on difficult conditions of the 70s in the New Zealand wickets is any day a revered achievement to include him in the discussion of all time great all rounders ever. Playing in Today’s conditions i think he will average around 30 with the bat in Tests and around 26-27 in ODI (quite speculative) and to have such with the bat along with near GOAT status in bowling definitely makes him a gem of an all rounder. He is better than Imran in bowling

Yeah, Hadlee gets badly over looked in these conversations.

The question here was who was the better cricketer, and can't be bothered to go through 14 pages, but primary skills it's Imran over Kallis, secondary going with Kallis and tertiary Kallis by the biggest margin of the others so far. So with the primary skill being weighed more heavily, it's really close, but both champions.

When you add Hadlee to the mix, he's ahead in the primary skill to both, and may be better than both for what it's worth.

 

[subshakerz]

Yeah, Hadlee gets badly over looked in these conversations.

The question here was who was the better cricketer, and can't be bothered to go through 14 pages, but primary skills it's Imran over Kallis, secondary going with Kallis and tertiary Kallis by the biggest margin of the others so far. So with the primary skill being weighed more heavily, it's really close, but both champions.

When you add Hadlee to the mix, he's ahead in the primary skill to both, and may be better than both for what it's worth.

Imran and Sobers are both unique in that in their secondary skills, they are good enough to be selected in most teams on that alone, but are ATG in primary skills.

Kallis based on his record, no. He didn't have the load or output.

 

[Coronis]

Imran and Sobers are both unique in that in their secondary skills, they are good enough to be selected in most teams on that alone, but are ATG in primary skills.

Kallis based on his record, no. He didn't have the load or output.

Is Imran really good enough to be selected in most teams as a batsman if he didn’t bowl?

I mean sure he could play for Bangladesh or open the batting for England… or make his way into current SA

Fun fact: Imran has the most not outs of any batsmen to average between 35 and 40 and equal fewest (with Jadeja) 50+ scores of any of those who have played 100 innings

 

[trundler]

Fun fact: Imran has the most not outs of any batsmen to average between 35 and 40 and equal fewest (with Jadeja) 50+ scores of any of those who have played 100 innings

This is really just damning with faint praise though. This argument would be more valid if he had a bad record higher up the order a la Vettori but he didn't and was a better batsman than basically every #6 during his era so he would make most teams as a batsman. West Indies had Logie there so yeah. Gotta account for eras. He's obviously not a better batsman than Atherton but no one believes that anyway.

 

[subshakerz]

Is Imran really good enough to be selected in most teams as a batsman if he didn’t bowl?

I mean sure he could play for Bangladesh or open the batting for England… or make his way into current SA

Fun fact: Imran has the most not outs of any batsmen to average between 35 and 40 and equal fewest (with Jadeja) 50+ scores of any of those who have played 100 innings

Fun fact, when Imran was injured for two years as a bowler he played as a pure bat for Pakistan, top scored in 83 WC and did well in Australia too. Imran is pretty much par for the course for a lower order bat for the 80s.

Kallis with less than 2 wickets a test and 10 overs an innings isn't a frontline bowler, period. His records looks worse once you exclude minnows.