Is Flintoff Overrated?

[tooextracool]

What about Kallis? (I totally agree with you, I just want to be argumentative)

wouldnt make it into the side on his bowling alone.....

 

[nookie_lk]

umm no

he has pace true...but he has a alot of abilityto swing the ball !!!

 

[Arjun]

England have a quality all-rounder in Flintoff, and they should support him. He is a true power player, who can win matches when in full flow. If only that Test bowling average can come down to the 20's....

The more I see of Flintoff, the more, as an Indian supporter, I wish there was one in the Indian team (as also a few like Gilchrist, Gayle, Hayden, Cairns, Kallis, Klusener, Bond, Lee, McGrath, Murali, Harmison and 11 Ricky Pontings). Then, they would not need a seventh batsman who's not good enough to make the playing XI, or a wicketkeeper who can bat, but can't keep.

 

[Tom Halsey]

The bandwagon jumping isn't just restricted to Flintoff.

Harmison and Giles have a fair few new fans whereas some of us can proudly state we defended them throughout

Yes.

 

[Tom Halsey]

my opinion has changed from what??

From your argument about Craig White with Marc.

 

[Tom Halsey]

he has pace true...but he has a alot of abilityto swing the ball !!!

Yes, he can swing it, but noone in their right mind would classify him a swing bowler.

 

[tooextracool]

From your argument about Craig White with Marc.

no it has not.....ive never said that flintoff wouldnt become a much better batsman. i've clearly stated that flintoff had far more potential with the bat than white which at the time he hadnt done much with because most of the time he threw his wicket away. as far as bowling ability is concerned i still stick to the same opinion that craig white in his prime was a far better bowler than flintoff is.

 

[Tom Halsey]

He had had a brilliant series v SA, and scored hundreds in SL and WI.

So Flintoff's recent bowling means nothing?

 

[tooextracool]

err flintoff never scored a 100 in SL.....against SA most of his innings came in dead rubber and he followed that up with poor performances in SL and with some very immature performances in the first 3 tests in the WI(which was around the time the argument took place). since then though hes batted with a lot more maturity and hasnt been gifting his wickets to sarwan.
and recent bowling performances dont make him better than craig white.

 

[Tom Halsey]

Sorry, my mistake WRT the century in SL.

The SA performances did not come in dead rubber - remember his quick fire 95 or whatever it was in the last Test?

Immature performances in WI? Give me a break.

His recent bowling makes him streets ahead of Craig White - why doesn't it?

 

[tooextracool]

The SA performances did not come in dead rubber - remember his quick fire 95 or whatever it was in the last Test?

no i said most of them....

Immature performances in WI? Give me a break.

so what were you doing around the time when he was getting out to those long hops of sarwan in the first 3 tests?

His recent bowling makes him streets ahead of Craig White - why doesn't it?

because craig white was capable of absolutely everything with the ball....in his prime he could cut it,seam it,swing it,reverse swing it and was capable of bowling at 90mph.

 

[Tom Halsey]

so what were you doing around the time when he was getting out to those long hops of sarwan in the first 3 tests?

He didn't get out to Sarwan every time, and he still batted rather well until he did get out on most occasions.

 

[Tom Halsey]

because craig white was capable of absolutely everything with the ball....in his prime he could cut it,seam it,swing it,reverse swing it and was capable of bowling at 90mph.

Freddy gets much more bounce, is much more accurate...and is currently taking more wickets in general though.

 

[Tom Halsey]

no i said most of them.....

So apart from the 142 or whatever it was, what other performances came in dead rubber situations then?

 

[Richard]

What about last summer against South Africa. It may not of been a Lara like spree but he scored his second test hundred followed by three consecutive fifties-he's been building up to this 'mountain of runs' seen this summer.

Yes, but that was simply good - that sort of thing is something close to sustainable.

 

[Richard]

Some of us have backed them for a long time in the face of sever criticism from the non-believers (and believe me, in the case of Harmison in particular, they were particularly vehement)

Now these non-believers have started t back the selections, so we can feel quite smug in knowing that we were right!

And of course the Harmison case has been proven completely, beyond all question, hasn't it?
And the Giles situation has not changed one iota - anyone who truly understood the situation always knew he is a very dangerous bowler on wickets such as Lahore, Faisalabad, Karachi, The SSC (2000\01), Motera (2001\02), Galle and Kandy (2003\04) and Trent Bridge, Lord's and Edgbaston (2004).
In South Africa I fully expect the other pattern to continue - no penetration whatsoever, like all fingerspinners, on wickets that don't offer extravagant turn.
Who knows, it might even resume in either of the last 2 home Tests - The Oval hasn't turned much in recent Test-matches. Though apparently a "spin-friendly" wicket is expected at Old Trafford.

 

[Richard]

The bandwagon jumping isn't just restricted to Flintoff.

Harmison and Giles have a fair few new fans whereas some of us can proudly state we defended them throughout

I am not one of the new Harmison fans, and my opinion of Giles hasn't changed a jot.

 

[FRAZ]

After two years who is going to be a better batting Allrounder , Shoaib Malik or Andrew Flintof ?

 

[marc71178]

Nobody knows because 2 years is a long time.

But if pressed I'd go for Flintoff as I don't think Malik will make the Pakistani Test team.

 

[Craig]

he has pace true...but he has a alot of abilityto swing the ball !!!

eh?