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ICC Champions Trophy in Sri Lanka
- Thread starter Gotchya
- Start date
Run Outs are usually stupid, besides u can't just get suspicious just coz the situation of the team was awful when the runout took place.
Remember, Yousuf have a clean record, and if one goes by this strange theory THAN Inzamam & Rameez Raja must be the biggest MF in the history of the game coz they often ended up getting run out!
Remember, Yousuf have a clean record, and if one goes by this strange theory THAN Inzamam & Rameez Raja must be the biggest MF in the history of the game coz they often ended up getting run out!
As of now, I think these are only rumours. Maybe, it is just a routine inspection by ACU. Keeping the players honest is a good thing, making them nervous and paranoid might very well affect their performance and the difference is a fine line(see Youhana's reaction to the reports). So, the ACU should have a feel of when to come in and when to lay off. Easier said than done, I guess.
aussie_beater
State Vice-Captain
I feel that the stupidity of this whole thing is that the ICC decided to go to the media about it.What purpose does that serve ?It can investigate all it wants, which is not that bad if there is reason to believe that wrong doing may have been committed, but to put the whole bunch of Pakistani cricketers on trial in front of the media is stupid to say the least.
[Edited on 9/17/02 by aussie_beater]
[Edited on 9/17/02 by aussie_beater]
I think there is more to it than just the on field run out....I think the other factors that have drawn their attention (apart from some tip off) would include .....
Pakistan's poor recent form,
the reported problems within the team etc
the declared unavailability of several, players for next months series V Australia,
the fact that one of those players was the other player involved in the run out,
and that another of those unavailable players has been strongly outspoken against match fixing and has been at odds with the team and PCB.
none of these points may even be valid let alone have any bearing on the matter, but it all seems to have come about at around the same time. with the team's past problems it could be a case of 'let's take a look see in case where there is smoke there is fire'!!!!!
:rolleyes:
Pakistan's poor recent form,
the reported problems within the team etc
the declared unavailability of several, players for next months series V Australia,
the fact that one of those players was the other player involved in the run out,
and that another of those unavailable players has been strongly outspoken against match fixing and has been at odds with the team and PCB.
none of these points may even be valid let alone have any bearing on the matter, but it all seems to have come about at around the same time. with the team's past problems it could be a case of 'let's take a look see in case where there is smoke there is fire'!!!!!
:rolleyes:
back to the cricket.....
is it just me or has anyone else noticed that no one seems to be taking much advantage of the '1 bouncer' rule available to the bowlers???
I have only seen bits and pieces of the games but I do not recall seeing too many teams using this tactic to unsettle the batsmen or restrict the run rate.
I find this curious considering how well this was used in the Tri Series (Aus, SA & NZ) where I reckon it contributed to the runs scored being 30 - 50 odd down on what could have been expected.
I was looking forward to seeing a better contest between bat & ball, particularly when the batsmen start to accelerate their scoring. So far I have only seen the odd 1 or 2 bouncers at lower order batsmen as per the usual response.
is it just me or has anyone else noticed that no one seems to be taking much advantage of the '1 bouncer' rule available to the bowlers???
I have only seen bits and pieces of the games but I do not recall seeing too many teams using this tactic to unsettle the batsmen or restrict the run rate.
I find this curious considering how well this was used in the Tri Series (Aus, SA & NZ) where I reckon it contributed to the runs scored being 30 - 50 odd down on what could have been expected.
I was looking forward to seeing a better contest between bat & ball, particularly when the batsmen start to accelerate their scoring. So far I have only seen the odd 1 or 2 bouncers at lower order batsmen as per the usual response.
Lets get some facts right!
First of all, the player that got runout "yousuf Youhanna" has been ruled out of Australian series by a Doctor, Yousuf himself has nothing to do with the decision!
The player u reffered to being against MF and being UNAVAILABLE "Rashid Lateef" Is not unavailable.Rashid has informed the board that he wants to play, its the Board that wants to give Moin Khan another chance!
The only player that is not willing to play is Waseem Akram, for reason best known to him.Inzamam has a health problem and had undergone a surgery recently, he might have to undergo another opereation and might even miss the WC'03.
As for Anwar, its not clear what he wanna do, he might play the Aussie series or may announce retirement!
"Any player having seen this incident is bound to think twice before doing something stupid!"
What incident?? If the players haven't learnt from the incedent of Cronje/Malik/Azhar etc then they will never learn.There wasn't any match fixing going on, the ICC acted like fools,they won't be able to find anything, instead the media will be tarnishing the image of an innocent cric like Youhanna
aussie_beater
State Vice-Captain
ICC acted wrong in publicizing it.They can do their own investigation and its good that they are acting pro-actively, but what was the purpose of giving it media exposure ?
thanks for the clarification re the 'unavailabilities'.....
now let's get some perspective here......
As I said there may be other circumstances that had been taken into consideration based upon what has been reported recently. Again I said that these may not be relevant or correct, but may have contributed to their feeling obliged to have a look ' just in case'....
as the governing body the ICC have a responsibility to the game (players and public) to ensure all is above board. I suggest that they would be irresponsible NOT to look at something that had been brought to their attention (by whatever means)or did not appear to be 'quite right', particularly as they have previously failed to protect the game from disrepute.
I am not aware of the ICC having said anything about any player or any alleged 'match fixing'. All I have heard is that they are looking at the run out incident, the rest so far as I am aware is media speculation.
I remind you that cricket is still trying to regain public credibility from the last scandals, and crowds numbers are still down, let alone the almost walk out regarding this tourneyment and the WC. All is still far from well and I suspect there is still more to come re the sponsorship issue in light of Sahara's recent decisions re Indian cricket sponsorship.
IMO the only one's who may have acted stupidly are the players!!!!!!
how stupid was it under the match situation, and how obvious was it that something had gone wrong? Not often do you see experienced international top order batsmen running 2/3 down the pitch on a quick single only to be sent back by his partner who has not moved from his crease at all? At the very least it shows a complete & utter breakdown in communication between the two batsmen, let alone anything to do with team tactics, instructions or the lack thereof.....
I was going to slag off at the media for possible irresponsible reporting & blowing things up, but in some ways it's a reflection of todays tabloid media that they can also make news via innuendo as much as report the facts, & I do not know who has run what re the story from the 'respected' sports journos. If it's the tabloids that are blowing this up then you treat it with the distain it deserves, if it is 'respected' sports journos or a respected media avenue then we should take notice. Too often the journos DO get the story right to be ignored - just look at the past 'match fixing' that was exposed via the media, and the more recent salary caps scandal in the NRL!!
While I do not agree to trial by media you should expect something of the sort when you are a public figure and you screw up in your public arena. Bottom line anyone with any common sence will still believe in the old adage 'innocent until proven guilty'!!!! Accordingly I reserve my judgement until such time, but that does not stop me and other supporters becoming concerned or expressing our concerns, especially where not so past history is concerned!!!!
(As a footnote to this I was equally concerned at reports that SA was contemplating letting Cronjie back into the game & that he was confident it would happen!!!)
jeez some of you guys seem to have such a persecution complex......
you know in some ways if you stop to think about it all this talk re Pakistan performances & irregularities etc is in effect a backhanded compliment to the players. If they weren't so highly regarded as both a team & as players do you think they would be attracting so much attention & concern?
I have previously stated that I think the Pakistan team to be the closest thing to my ideal. They should be at the head of the class in both forms of the game but continually frustrate by blowing up big time.
A clean, stable & strong Pakistan team is as vital to cricket IMO as is expansion of the game & attracting back the supporters, as they seem to be the only team with the 'talent' to threaten the Australian dominance. Maybe there is a fundamental flaw in their psychie(???) in this day and age of ultra professionalism?
now let's get some perspective here......
As I said there may be other circumstances that had been taken into consideration based upon what has been reported recently. Again I said that these may not be relevant or correct, but may have contributed to their feeling obliged to have a look ' just in case'....
as the governing body the ICC have a responsibility to the game (players and public) to ensure all is above board. I suggest that they would be irresponsible NOT to look at something that had been brought to their attention (by whatever means)or did not appear to be 'quite right', particularly as they have previously failed to protect the game from disrepute.
I am not aware of the ICC having said anything about any player or any alleged 'match fixing'. All I have heard is that they are looking at the run out incident, the rest so far as I am aware is media speculation.
I remind you that cricket is still trying to regain public credibility from the last scandals, and crowds numbers are still down, let alone the almost walk out regarding this tourneyment and the WC. All is still far from well and I suspect there is still more to come re the sponsorship issue in light of Sahara's recent decisions re Indian cricket sponsorship.
IMO the only one's who may have acted stupidly are the players!!!!!!
how stupid was it under the match situation, and how obvious was it that something had gone wrong? Not often do you see experienced international top order batsmen running 2/3 down the pitch on a quick single only to be sent back by his partner who has not moved from his crease at all? At the very least it shows a complete & utter breakdown in communication between the two batsmen, let alone anything to do with team tactics, instructions or the lack thereof.....
I was going to slag off at the media for possible irresponsible reporting & blowing things up, but in some ways it's a reflection of todays tabloid media that they can also make news via innuendo as much as report the facts, & I do not know who has run what re the story from the 'respected' sports journos. If it's the tabloids that are blowing this up then you treat it with the distain it deserves, if it is 'respected' sports journos or a respected media avenue then we should take notice. Too often the journos DO get the story right to be ignored - just look at the past 'match fixing' that was exposed via the media, and the more recent salary caps scandal in the NRL!!
While I do not agree to trial by media you should expect something of the sort when you are a public figure and you screw up in your public arena. Bottom line anyone with any common sence will still believe in the old adage 'innocent until proven guilty'!!!! Accordingly I reserve my judgement until such time, but that does not stop me and other supporters becoming concerned or expressing our concerns, especially where not so past history is concerned!!!!
(As a footnote to this I was equally concerned at reports that SA was contemplating letting Cronjie back into the game & that he was confident it would happen!!!)
jeez some of you guys seem to have such a persecution complex......
you know in some ways if you stop to think about it all this talk re Pakistan performances & irregularities etc is in effect a backhanded compliment to the players. If they weren't so highly regarded as both a team & as players do you think they would be attracting so much attention & concern?
I have previously stated that I think the Pakistan team to be the closest thing to my ideal. They should be at the head of the class in both forms of the game but continually frustrate by blowing up big time.
A clean, stable & strong Pakistan team is as vital to cricket IMO as is expansion of the game & attracting back the supporters, as they seem to be the only team with the 'talent' to threaten the Australian dominance. Maybe there is a fundamental flaw in their psychie(???) in this day and age of ultra professionalism?
.
IMO the only one's who may have acted stupidly are the players!!!!!!
how stupid was it under the match situation, and how obvious was it that something had gone wrong? Not often do you see experienced international top order batsmen running 2/3 down the pitch on a quick single only to be sent back by his partner who has not moved from his crease at all? At the very least it shows a complete & utter breakdown in communication between the two batsmen, let alone anything to do with team tactics, instructions or the lack thereof.....
Ofcourse that was stupid BUT u can't just start investigation coz of some soft dismisals? silly Runout happens, i guess u haven't seen much cricket or u would have know how Inzi & Rameez used to get Runout.If u have a suspicious mind, u would suspect anything.Remember the 99 WC semis, Zulu didn't even moved yet Donald kept running untill he reached the other end, that runout costs SA the final birth, i guess ACU should investigate that runout.
Waseem Akram, the most experianced bowler had been giving 10 extra runs per onedayer, maybe ICC should look into it too.
A few month back ACU started investigation Inzamam's dismissal , the bowler was perhaps Warne, Inzi came dancing down the wkt and was stumped.However the Pak team management did the right thing, they gave ACU the boot , didn't allow them to interrogate Inzi!
The PCB have said that they are unconcerened unless ACU action is directed against one match or one team.I don't think ACU can do much,all they are trying to do is make their presence felt!
Read This!
Omar Kureishi
Even, as we slam our cricket team, spare a thought for the brilliant cricket that Sri Lanka played, this was a team that seemed down and out on its tour of England, almost entirely because Muttiah Muralitharan was unfit. It re-grouped and with the wizard off-spinner available, it re-discovered its self-belief. It won the tournament in Morocco in style, disposing of both Pakistan and South Africa.
Before its home crowd, Sri Lanka started as favourites to beat Pakistan. Why then are we so surprised that Pakistan lost? But more than surprised, we are angry.
We have got quite used to believing that the Pakistan team can only lose if there is internal bickering or that the bookies have got to it. We rarely give any credit to our opponents. Sanath Jayasuriya is one of the best batsmen in the world and when he fires, Sri Lanka usually wins. Muralitharan is the best spinner in the world, in both versions of the game. If there is such a person as a match-winner in this team game, it is he. It was our bad luck that both were at the top of their game and throw in Aravinda de Silva and our cup of grief was full.
But when a team is down on its luck, the rub of the green is not with it. I thought that Jayasuriya was caught behind off Wasim Akram early in his innings and Aravinda was plumb out, leg-before. The umpire who had not hesitated to go to the third umpire in the case of Shoaib Malik, chose not to use technology in this case. But one has to accept this in cricket as the Sri Lankans had to accept that Saeed Anwar got two lives before he was finally out.
But having said all this, there seems to be little doubt that something is not right with the team. From its body-language, it gives the impression that the players are not enjoying their cricket.
I really can't see what the grievances can be. It is too simplistic to say that there is feuding in the team. There has to be some reason for in-fighting. The team started to unravel in Morocco and that is when the team management should have stepped in and sorted things out.
I don't think it is fair to pin-point or target individuals for what, prima facie, is a collective failure. In management, areas of responsibility and authority should be clearly spelt out.
The captain should be in charge of them on the field, the coach should run the nets and even the captain should be subservient to him in this area. If, so instance, Yusuf Youhana had refused to appear at the nets, it should have been the coach who should have been the disciplining authority. And the manager should be above all this. Somewhere, I feel there has been either an overlapping or a dereliction. It is not just the team that should get its act together but the management as well.
There are 'weak' areas in the team. The batting has not clicked but the main reason is that Inzamam has not been available. This is why the batting order has not been stable. Pakistan is not like Australia. There are no alternatives available. Then there was the wholly avoidable row with Yousuf Youhana. The younger players seem to have got caught in the cross-fire and I can't help feeling that Shahid Afridi is getting too much advice and Imran Nazir not enough or else he wouldn't be making the same mistake over and over again.
It didn't seem right that Saeed Anwar having batted should have been allowed to skip fielding and Imran Nazir brought in to field for him. Jayasuriya did appear to bring this to the notice of the umpires who too no notice. Saeed Anwar is not among the fleetest of fielders and he was replaced by the best fielder in the team.
Judging by media reports, the ICC's Anti-Corruption Unit seems to be very busy making sure that the players do not make any contact of any sort with what are deemed to be unauthorised persons. There are shades of Peter Sellers as Inspector Closseau in the Pink Panther films. Even girl cricket fans, the groupies who attach themselves to cricket teams are being watched and questioned. Big Brother seems to be watching closely over the players and keeping the bookies at bay.
This is supposed to be a rehearsal for the World Cup. This must be tough on the players. Did they bring this sort of vigilance on themselves? It seems to be a validation of the saying that when two elephants fight, it is the grass that suffers.
Does the ICC Anti-Corruption Unit have the legal right to carry out vigilance in the hotels of the teams? Is this not an invasion of privacy of the hotel guests? The ICC Anti-Corruption Unit should be going after the bookies and by now, it should have got a good idea of who they are. Unless, it is trying to justify its existence.
One wishes the ICC would have shown the same vigilance in drawing up the contracts with the players instead of climbing down when challenged by the Indian players.
Omar Kureishi
Even, as we slam our cricket team, spare a thought for the brilliant cricket that Sri Lanka played, this was a team that seemed down and out on its tour of England, almost entirely because Muttiah Muralitharan was unfit. It re-grouped and with the wizard off-spinner available, it re-discovered its self-belief. It won the tournament in Morocco in style, disposing of both Pakistan and South Africa.
Before its home crowd, Sri Lanka started as favourites to beat Pakistan. Why then are we so surprised that Pakistan lost? But more than surprised, we are angry.
We have got quite used to believing that the Pakistan team can only lose if there is internal bickering or that the bookies have got to it. We rarely give any credit to our opponents. Sanath Jayasuriya is one of the best batsmen in the world and when he fires, Sri Lanka usually wins. Muralitharan is the best spinner in the world, in both versions of the game. If there is such a person as a match-winner in this team game, it is he. It was our bad luck that both were at the top of their game and throw in Aravinda de Silva and our cup of grief was full.
But when a team is down on its luck, the rub of the green is not with it. I thought that Jayasuriya was caught behind off Wasim Akram early in his innings and Aravinda was plumb out, leg-before. The umpire who had not hesitated to go to the third umpire in the case of Shoaib Malik, chose not to use technology in this case. But one has to accept this in cricket as the Sri Lankans had to accept that Saeed Anwar got two lives before he was finally out.
But having said all this, there seems to be little doubt that something is not right with the team. From its body-language, it gives the impression that the players are not enjoying their cricket.
I really can't see what the grievances can be. It is too simplistic to say that there is feuding in the team. There has to be some reason for in-fighting. The team started to unravel in Morocco and that is when the team management should have stepped in and sorted things out.
I don't think it is fair to pin-point or target individuals for what, prima facie, is a collective failure. In management, areas of responsibility and authority should be clearly spelt out.
The captain should be in charge of them on the field, the coach should run the nets and even the captain should be subservient to him in this area. If, so instance, Yusuf Youhana had refused to appear at the nets, it should have been the coach who should have been the disciplining authority. And the manager should be above all this. Somewhere, I feel there has been either an overlapping or a dereliction. It is not just the team that should get its act together but the management as well.
There are 'weak' areas in the team. The batting has not clicked but the main reason is that Inzamam has not been available. This is why the batting order has not been stable. Pakistan is not like Australia. There are no alternatives available. Then there was the wholly avoidable row with Yousuf Youhana. The younger players seem to have got caught in the cross-fire and I can't help feeling that Shahid Afridi is getting too much advice and Imran Nazir not enough or else he wouldn't be making the same mistake over and over again.
It didn't seem right that Saeed Anwar having batted should have been allowed to skip fielding and Imran Nazir brought in to field for him. Jayasuriya did appear to bring this to the notice of the umpires who too no notice. Saeed Anwar is not among the fleetest of fielders and he was replaced by the best fielder in the team.
Judging by media reports, the ICC's Anti-Corruption Unit seems to be very busy making sure that the players do not make any contact of any sort with what are deemed to be unauthorised persons. There are shades of Peter Sellers as Inspector Closseau in the Pink Panther films. Even girl cricket fans, the groupies who attach themselves to cricket teams are being watched and questioned. Big Brother seems to be watching closely over the players and keeping the bookies at bay.
This is supposed to be a rehearsal for the World Cup. This must be tough on the players. Did they bring this sort of vigilance on themselves? It seems to be a validation of the saying that when two elephants fight, it is the grass that suffers.
Does the ICC Anti-Corruption Unit have the legal right to carry out vigilance in the hotels of the teams? Is this not an invasion of privacy of the hotel guests? The ICC Anti-Corruption Unit should be going after the bookies and by now, it should have got a good idea of who they are. Unless, it is trying to justify its existence.
One wishes the ICC would have shown the same vigilance in drawing up the contracts with the players instead of climbing down when challenged by the Indian players.