Ian Botham vs Kapil Dev

[kingjulian]

Most Indians on this site are very fair and balanced in their views. In fact I can say that about most people on this site.

Hi....

I have a used car to sell...would you be interested? Its a grear piece of work....

 

[kingjulian]

I deliberate said "greatest all around cricketer" and not "greatest all rounder" so that anyone with a brain could differentiate between judging on ability or achievement

Yes. You should write a book on the difference between allrounder and allround cricketer and explain to all the less than half brained idiots like me how one is about ability and the other is about achievement...

 

[Xuhaib]

I never understood (I was very young when it happened). Why did India have to score those runs in the same over to save follow on? It was a test match, they could take as many overs as they liked.

the guy at the other end was a bunny also it was just cool the way he did it.

 

[fredfertang]

the guy at the other end was a bunny also it was just cool the way he did it.

I think Kapil would have done it that way anyway - I always liked the bloke because he gave the impression he was enjoying himself when he was playing, and not just when things were going well

 

[Arjun]

As a few said earlier, Botham was better in Tests, while Kapil had done better for India in ODIs. Kapil's batting strike rate is very unlike what you'd get in those days, and though he hasn't taken five-wicket hauls so often (just once), he's been fit and never missed a game.

It's sad that so many Indians accuse Kapil of holding back Srinath's career purely to chase Hadlee's record. It's a monumental record at the time and was worth chasing, and Kapil was one bloke you'd keep to chase a record. Besides, he was also a capable batsman, like his partner Prabhakar, and a smart bowler. Srinath, at that time, was wayward, barely fit, and incapable of batting, and would be a poor replacement then. In that era, whenever the Indians played at home, we saw them pick three spinners for home Tests, so Srinath was always benched- that was flawed, not Kapil.

 

[Howe_zat]

Would Kapil be the best allrounder in the world if he was playing right now?

By a distance, seeing as it's hard to see who the competition would be. Kallis barely bowls any more, Watson has gone from people laughing at his bowling to being a bowler who happens to open, Broad is as inconsistent as hell, Bresnan has only just started and hasn't really proven much with the bat, Vettori is miles behind as a bowler.

 

[silentstriker]

Botham easily of course. Harsh on Kapil, considering it has been, post independence:

****-****-****-****-****-Kapil-****-****-****-****-**** for India. But Botham the better bowler and the better bat.

 

[weldone]

It's sad that so many Indians accuse Kapil of holding back Srinath's career purely to chase Hadlee's record. It's a monumental record at the time and was worth chasing, and Kapil was one bloke you'd keep to chase a record. Besides, he was also a capable batsman, like his partner Prabhakar, and a smart bowler. Srinath, at that time, was wayward, barely fit, and incapable of batting, and would be a poor replacement then. In that era, whenever the Indians played at home, we saw them pick three spinners for home Tests, so Srinath was always benched- that was flawed, not Kapil.

awta

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Yes. You should write a book on the difference between allrounder and allround cricketer and explain to all the less than half brained idiots like me how one is about ability and the other is about achievement...

Given how you struggle with two sentences I don't think I'll bother.

 

[karan316]

I wonder where these innings of Kapil should be rated among the ATG test innings,

100 off 95 balls(13 fours and 3 sixes) vs WI against the brutal bowling of
Holding, Roberts, Garner and Marshall.

2nd Test: West Indies v India at Port of Spain, Mar 11-16, 1983 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

129 off 180 balls(14 fours and 1 six) vs SA, at Port Elizabeth,
the next highest score for India was 17,
Kapil came in to bat with India on 27 for 5, with an injured right hand he was batting against a lightning fast Allan Donald(took 12 wickets in the match) on a pitch that was very difficult to bat on, I think this innings is one of the most underrated innings.
3rd Test: South Africa v India at Port Elizabeth, Dec 26-29, 1992 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

 

[karan316]

Wish there were videos of these innings, I have already requested Rob many times, but there has been no response.
Can't complain either, because he must be getting atleast 1000 requests everyday:-)

 

[ankitj]

I wonder where these innings of Kapil should be rated among the ATG test innings,

100 off 95 balls(13 fours and 3 sixes) vs WI against the brutal bowling of
Holding, Roberts, Garner and Marshall.

2nd Test: West Indies v India at Port of Spain, Mar 11-16, 1983 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

129 off 180 balls(14 fours and 1 six) vs SA, at Port Elizabeth,
the next highest score for India was 17,
Kapil came in to bat with India on 27 for 5, with an injured right hand he was batting against a lightning fast Allan Donald(took 12 wickets in the match) on a pitch that was very difficult to bat on, I think this innings is one of the most underrated innings.
3rd Test: South Africa v India at Port Elizabeth, Dec 26-29, 1992 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

Second one made it to Wisden 100 and also the Days_of_Grace's list. He might have forgotten to include the first one in his analysis, you can request him.

 

[Migara]

Botham is the greatest all round cricketer in history. Unfortunately his lack of dedication means it wasn't shown in his performances beyond the peak years for a Human Being where you can get away with it.

Contradictory statements.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Contradictory statements.

FFS have a day off from being an idiot. Botham is one of only a handful at most in history who could make a strong Test team as a batsman or bowler if either were his only skill and he was also a great fielder in the slips. That makes him the greatest all around cricketer in history and his lack of dedication doesn't change that one bit.

 

[Migara]

I wonder where these innings of Kapil should be rated among the ATG test innings,

100 off 95 balls(13 fours and 3 sixes) vs WI against the brutal bowling of
Holding, Roberts, Garner and Marshall.

2nd Test: West Indies v India at Port of Spain, Mar 11-16, 1983 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

129 off 180 balls(14 fours and 1 six) vs SA, at Port Elizabeth,
the next highest score for India was 17,
Kapil came in to bat with India on 27 for 5, with an injured right hand he was batting against a lightning fast Allan Donald(took 12 wickets in the match) on a pitch that was very difficult to bat on, I think this innings is one of the most underrated innings.
3rd Test: South Africa v India at Port Elizabeth, Dec 26-29, 1992 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

I have seen the latter live. It was the series that Kumble announced himself with his version of flipper called the "rocket ball". Kapil's batting was just jaw dropping.

 

[Migara]

FFS have a day off from being an idiot. Botham is one of only a handful at most in history who could make a strong Test team as a batsman or bowler if either were his only skill and he was also a great fielder in the slips. That makes him the greatest all around cricketer in history and his lack of dedication doesn't change that one bit.

Yo, I am not disputing Batham's greatness. But un dedicated unfit turd cannot be the best in any other profession if it is not being unfit or undedicated.

 

[Outswinger@Pace]

Yo, I am not disputing Batham's greatness. But un dedicated unfit turd cannot be the best in any other profession if it is not being unfit or undedicated.

My sentiments, exactly. It sends the wrong message out to kids if people with insufficient work ethics are overtly glorified. Botham was a talented **** who I believe should have achieved a lot more with his natural flair.

No time for him as an individual, but there can be little doubt that he's one of the greatest all-rounders that this game has seen. And he takes this contest slightly ahead of Kapil who I feel is somewhat underrated among certain factions. A better LOI player than Botham, btw.

 

[Outswinger@Pace]

This is similar to the Lillee vs. Holding poll, in a sense. Most people think that one bloke is better than the other, but the margin is not monumental. Hope that people reading the poll results appreciate that perspective.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Yo, I am not disputing Batham's greatness. But un dedicated unfit turd cannot be the best in any other profession if it is not being unfit or undedicated.

I could have said "most naturally talented" but then someone would have leapt in and said there's no such thing as talent, or that Garry Sobers could also do everything Botham could and also bowled spin, and someone else would have said that Keith Miller was handy with a banjo..............and then all roads would have lead to Imran Khan anyway even though for the first half of his career he couldn't bat to save his granny.

 

[Spark]

Wow, wasn't expecting this thread to boil like it has. Keep it level, boys and girls.