Ian Botham vs Kapil Dev

[Jono]

I learned a long time ago that there's no such thing as a convincing argument on this forum, so two lines is my maximum otherwise it gives someone an excuse to get the slide rule out.

Every second post of yours is having a go at how horrible Cricket Chat is, yet you are here quite often.

Curious.

 

[JBH001]

and Botham and Kapil against the WI?

Unfortunately, much of Botham's play against WI during his peak (1977 - 1984/85) co-incided with his captaincy of England. It's difficult to say how much impact this had on his performance but it is undeniable that it was detrimental. His performance against WI in 1984 was much better with 19 wickets (IIRC) including an 8-fer and 3 fifties at a SR over 60. That said, I do believe that Kapil is under-rated as an all-rounder and I don't think the difference between Botham and Kapil is as large as sometimes made out to be. Kapil was a very good bowler, and should have made more of his natural batting talent (his SR is extraordinary) but, at least in fielding, I think Botham leaves him for dust.

 

[hang on]

Time for me to post some of the incredible achievements by Botham:

• Only cricketer to pick 5 wkts in an innings and score a century in the same match 5 times. No one did it more than twice.
• Only cricketer to take 10+ fivers and 10+ hundreds
• Only cricketer to break the 800 ICC rating point barrier both as batsman and as bowler

For someone so unbelievably gifted, it's a sad thing that he could not maintain the levels of commitment / did not hang his boot at the right time.

and that's why, if i wanted someone to play and do well as an all rounder in the same match, it would be botham.....after sobers by a hair.

though his inability to raise his game, like his 3 illustrious contemporaries, when taking on the best of his era is a black marks against his achievements. and is, perhaps, the reason, why he doesn't get the same level of plaudits as imran.

 

[ankitj]

Most Indians on this site are very fair and balanced in their views. In fact I can say that about most people on this site.

You just robbed the forum of its favourite gossip material

 

[smash84]

You just robbed the forum of its favourite gossip material

 

[Xuhaib]

Botham is clearly the better player but Kapil is hugely under rated on these forums I have not seen anyone praising him maybe SJS should do a piece on him.

 

[Jono]

Kapil is underrated because of his competition I reckon.

You can be inferior to Imran and Botham as allrounders (and not as good a bowler as Hadlee) and still be frickin' awesome.

 

[salman85]

That is true.Cricinfo sums it up quite nicely on Kapil's profile page.

"If he had played at any other time - not when Imran Khan, Ian Botham and Richard Hadlee were contemporaries - he would surely have been recognised as the best allrounder in the world"

 

[Days of Grace]

Would Kapil be the best allrounder in the world if he was playing right now?

 

[ankitj]

I think both Kapil and Botham were impact players. Their overall averages are not exactly spectacular but on certain days they could raise their game to Godly levels. (There is no dearth of truly heroic performances in Kapil's resume too) But they must have gone through longish periods of ordinary performances too, very much like VVS Laxman in current times.

 

[smash84]

Would Kapil be the best allrounder in the world if he was playing right now?

easily I suppose

 

[Teja.]

Botham was the most valuable cricketer in the world fora period of about 5 years. He was incredibly skilled and did some amazing things with the bat and ball simultaneously.

I'd have him just ahead of Kapil in terms of value added over career and considerably behind the likes of Imran Khan and Garry Sobers in the greatest cricketer stakes though, personally.

I've always been highly interested in Botham's bowling in the late 70s. Was of a genuine ATG quality without ever being close to genuine express pace but sadly there's very little footage to watch. Could move it about heaps from the little I could see.

 

[Jono]

Would Kapil be the best allrounder in the world if he was playing right now?

Better question IMO is would he have been the best allrounder in the world if he was playing (at his peak) circa 2004-05 when Flintoff was fit and firing.

 

[Teja.]

Better question IMO is would he have been the best allrounder in the world if he was playing (at his peak) circa 2004-05 when Flintoff was fit and firing.

Considering Kapil's overall 16-year career standard can still compare to the Flintoff peak, The answer is a resounding yes, IMO.

One should remember that Kapil at his peak could have miraculous series' with the ball, like taking 29 wickets @ 18 in India as the sole bowler against the West Indies.

 

[Jono]

WAG

WAM (what a mo)

 

[smash84]

Considering Kapil's overall 16-year career standard can still compare to the Flintoff peak, The answer is a resounding yes, IMO.

One should remember that Kapil at his peak could have miraculous series' with the ball, like taking 29 wickets @ 18 in India as the sole bowler against the West Indies.

awta

 

[Xuhaib]

yeah as much as I like Freddie even at his peak he's a tier below Kapil.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Kapil is underrated because of his competition I reckon.

You can be inferior to Imran and Botham as allrounders (and not as good a bowler as Hadlee) and still be frickin' awesome.

AWTA so much.

My favourite Kapil moment was the 6's off Eddie Hemmings at Lords to save the follow on in Gooch's match.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

yeah as much as I like Freddie even at his peak he's a tier below Kapil.

Not sure, Freddie's peak was as good as any allrounder ever, trouble is it was such a short time of about 12 months. Probably take Kapil over him if pushed for a choice between the two as Kapil was far more reliable.

 

[ankitj]

AWTA so much.

My favourite Kapil moment was the 6's off Eddie Hemmings at Lords to save the follow on in Gooch's match.

I never understood (I was very young when it happened). Why did India have to score those runs in the same over to save follow on? It was a test match, they could take as many overs as they liked.