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How would you Pick Englands ODI team After the world cup

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
I remember reading some where that there was a talented 25 year old South African batsmen who was playing in England and would qualify for them soon.

Does anyone know what his name is? And if this person would be in contention for a place?
I think it was Jonathan Trott??...
Yeah, I think that's who you have in mind. Not sure if he actually wants to play for England, that's the issue.
IIRR (skd mentioned this a while back) he has apparently stated that he does want to play for England, and provides a break from the conventional flying-the-flag-of-convenience EU-passport player.

If so, there are some less deserving of a chance.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Michael Vaughan - Fitness depending. If fit he should open and captain. From here he can accumulate (fingers crossed). If not fit then Andrew Strauss. Again I do not see a problem with England having an accumulator at the top of the innings complimented by the more forceful strokeplay of the other opener
It'd be all well and good if Strauss and Vaughan really were accumulators, but the more common theme for both is to sometimes blaze, sometimes creak, to 20 or 30 then hit one straight to a fielder.

Strauss and Vaughan are clearly no more ODI players than Atherton and Boycott were.
Paul Collingwood - Not really been turning it on in the one day game recently even though his test form has been better. Now isnt that an irony for the one day specialist.
Collingwood's form in ODIs recently has been better than at any other point in his career. For the first time ever, he actually merits a place in the ODI side.
Stuart Broad - The potential is oozing out of this kid. He needs exposure to International cricket ASAP and with our horrendously weak ODI team I think this the best way to get it for him.
Why does he need exposure ASAP? At the moment he's patently not good enough to play internationally anyway, and given that most bowlers who get brought in as teenagers suffer injury problems, would waiting not be a far more sensible option?
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Bull****, RMJ and Mascarenhas bowl far more than a bit, bowling is clearly their strongest suit
Just because they bowl better than they bat, doesn't make them International class players.

If they averaged under 10 with the bat they'd not be given a second look, hence they'd be getting in in spite of not being good enough with bat or ball, or "bits and pieces".
 

Anna

International Vice-Captain
Martin-Jenkins is a good bowler incredibly unfortunate to see rubbish like Bresnan, Plunkett, Kabir Ali, Broad, Mahmood, Harmison, Anderson, Tremlett, Wharf, Clarke, Batty, Blackwell, Snape, Tudor, Sidebottom, Kirtley, Franks and Swann picked ahead of him.
Oh piss off. In the one-day international series last march/may (can't remember which) he had the best bowling figures of the England team IIRC. According to Brian Rose, Blackie will be the fittest he's ever been in his professional cricketing career very shortly.
 

shortpitched713

International Captain
Despite the fact that virtually no fingerspinner has ever had the ability to consistently take wickets in ODIs?
The 2011 World Cup is being played in the subcontinent, and Monty is England's best attacking and defensive spinner by a margin. A no-brainer for mine really.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Just because they bowl better than they bat, doesn't make them International class players.
You don't know that, because they've never played ODIs.
If they averaged under 10 with the bat they'd not be given a second look, hence they'd be getting in in spite of not being good enough with bat or ball, or "bits and pieces".
You mightn't give them a second look, but I would, because they've actually bowled well, you just refuse to acknowledge it because they aren't always big wicket-takers and aren't very quick.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Oh piss off. In the one-day international series last march/may (can't remember which) he had the best bowling figures of the England team IIRC. According to Brian Rose, Blackie will be the fittest he's ever been in his professional cricketing career very shortly.
News-flash: having 1 series where you do better than the likes of Plunkett, Kabir Ali and Mahmood is no great achievement, nor is being fit when you don't possess the talent.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
The 2011 World Cup is being played in the subcontinent, and Monty is England's best attacking and defensive spinner by a margin. A no-brainer for mine really.
Trouble is, not all matches in the intervening time are being so, and it'll be difficult to prepare accordingly.

In any case, the overwhelming likelihood is that the pitches won't favour spin at all, and will be mostly absolute batting belters.
 

Anna

International Vice-Captain
News-flash: having 1 series where you do better than the likes of Plunkett, Kabir Ali and Mahmood is no great achievement, nor is being fit when you don't possess the talent.
FFS, get over yourself. Blackie most certainly has the talent and if you don't see it, then that's a shame.

It must be so tiring being so opinionated and disagreeing with everyone all the time. I pitty you.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
If I disagree with "everyone all the time" why don't I respond to every single post in CW?

If Blackwell is so talented, why is his domestic-one-day record so utterly modest?
 

Bob Bamber

U19 12th Man
Bresnan, Plunkett, Kabir Ali, Broad, Mahmood, Harmison, Anderson, Tremlett, Wharf, Clarke, Batty, Blackwell, Snape, Tudor, Sidebottom, Kirtley, Franks and Swann.
Not sure how you can drag them three into it. Broad and Tremlett haven't played that much ODI cricket. And Harmison more often than not was a very good bowler for England. Comparing all of the above listed to Martin Jenkins is a joke. He plays county one day cricket. Hardly up to International standards.

Its bits and pieces players like Ian Blackwell and Alex Loudon that are ruining Englands ODI's. Sure Collingwood is a good inclusion (Not that I'd play him) , but the likes of Dalrymple doesn't need to be in the England side. Blackwell was overrated.

Englands problem is that they rush players into One Day International Cricket. The likes of Mahmood , Anderson were rushed in and Anderson is paying the price and Mahmood will do too. England need to realise the right time to play players in ODI cricket. I agree that Loye is probably too late , but I believe hes the best thing England have in an opener. Whether the 2011 world Cup is too late for him I don't know.
 

Mr Mxyzptlk

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News-flash: having 1 series where you do better than the likes of Plunkett, Kabir Ali and Mahmood is no great achievement, nor is being fit when you don't possess the talent.
And an economy rate of 3.89 against India in India for a fingerspinner is very good. Forget about how he performed relative to a weak bunch. He did a fine job in his role.

He also has a career economy of 4.27 from 34 matches and an economy of 3.82 from 5 matches bowling against Australia. He's taken wickets every time he's played Australia, bar once. And that one time he bowled 10 overs for 32 runs. Granted, that was all in one series, but it showed that he can play the role of an ODI fingerspinner.

Whether or not he's the most talented player, Blackwell has been England's best ODI spinner for the past few years. In the 3 series (Australia, Pakistan, India) that he has bowled more than 20 overs, he has done so quite effectively, with an economy rate of 4.09.
 

Mr Mxyzptlk

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And Harmison more often than not was a very good bowler for England.
Actually, in 26 of his 46 matches, Steve Harmison went for more than 5 runs per over. In 13 of those 26 games, he went for more than 6 runs per over. In 11 of those 26 games he was wicketless. And in a whopping 20 of his 46 ODI matches, Harmison took no more than 1 wicket and went for more than 5 runs per over.

I think it's fairly safe to say that you are wrong.
 

Tomm NCCC

International 12th Man
Personally, I think alot of change is needed, we have a relatively weak bowling attack, and no-one who will be able to control an economy rate on such a frequent basis. It would look like this...

Vaughan
Strauss
Loye
Pietersen
Dalrymple
Flintoff
Foster
Collingwood
Broad
Anderson
Sidebottom.


Its a fairly odd squad (I like it - The odd Squad.) Broad is a tall lad, hits the deck hard and honestly suprised not to see him in Hobart. He convinced me against Pakistan he can deal with this sort of thing. Collingwood has time after time proven that he isnt a bad little bowler in ODI's, Deceptive medium pace keeps the rate down, and can get a wicket or two. And I guess is should explain this.... Sidebottom in because he can keep a rate down. Incredible campaign in 2006, The one day arena certainly. He's likely to take 2 or 3 per game, and the amount of effort he puts in is unbelieveable.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Not sure how you can drag them three into it. Broad and Tremlett haven't played that much ODI cricket. And Harmison more often than not was a very good bowler for England.
Nonsense, Harmison played 41 ODIs, the first 10 in which he was utterly and totally useless (5.57-an-over, average 50.55). He was half-decent in the summer of 2004 (11 games, 6 good, 5 bad), and had a pretty good summer in 2005 against Australia (7 games, 4 good, 2 bad, 1 absolutely abysmal). Other than those handful of games, he was absolutely ****-poor: in those first 10 games, in South Africa, in Pakistan, against Sri Lanka last summer, and worst of all in the Champions Trophy.

So basically that's 12 good games out of 41. Harmison was never a good enough ODI bowler, because for the vast majority of the time he lacked the requistite accuracy, and as a result struggled with the one-day wide rule.

As for Broad, does his domestic record (added to the fact that mostly he's not even been deemed good enough to get into the Leics side) not suggest to you that he's been pretty hopeless to date, in addition to his brief ODI career (which he should never, ever have got anywhere near).

As for Tremlett, he bowled crap in his only ODI, as he has done most of his domestic career, profiting often from the excuse for a pitch at The Rose Bowl.
Comparing all of the above listed to Martin Jenkins is a joke. He plays county one day cricket. Hardly up to International standards.
And you don't know that unless he gets picked in ODIs. The bowlers I listed have, and have proven (to date in some cases) woefully substandard. Martin-Jenkins' domestic career is far better than those useless bowlers.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
And an economy rate of 3.89 against India in India for a fingerspinner is very good. Forget about how he performed relative to a weak bunch. He did a fine job in his role.

He also has a career economy of 4.27 from 34 matches and an economy of 3.82 from 5 matches bowling against Australia. He's taken wickets every time he's played Australia, bar once. And that one time he bowled 10 overs for 32 runs. Granted, that was all in one series, but it showed that he can play the role of an ODI fingerspinner.

Whether or not he's the most talented player, Blackwell has been England's best ODI spinner for the past few years. In the 3 series (Australia, Pakistan, India) that he has bowled more than 20 overs, he has done so quite effectively, with an economy rate of 4.09.
Blackwell has been no better than Dalrymple and Yardy, who're nought but part-timers. Indeed, when Blackwell was first picked it was under the assumption that he could bat (on decent-sized grounds). That was soon put-paid to, of course.

As for his record against India in India - India's relatively weak batting had often floundered and he regularly bowled when they were trying (often unsuccessfully) to rebuild.

Yes, his record to date is pretty impressive, but he's had quite something of an easy ride. Many other bowlers have had similar starts to their ODI careers, and fallen later by the wayside.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Personally, I think alot of change is needed, we have a relatively weak bowling attack, and no-one who will be able to control an economy rate on such a frequent basis. It would look like this...

Vaughan
Strauss
Loye
Pietersen
Dalrymple
Flintoff
Foster
Collingwood
Broad
Anderson
Sidebottom.


Its a fairly odd squad (I like it - The odd Squad.) Broad is a tall lad, hits the deck hard and honestly suprised not to see him in Hobart. He convinced me against Pakistan he can deal with this sort of thing. Collingwood has time after time proven that he isnt a bad little bowler in ODI's, Deceptive medium pace keeps the rate down, and can get a wicket or two. And I guess is should explain this.... Sidebottom in because he can keep a rate down. Incredible campaign in 2006, The one day arena certainly. He's likely to take 2 or 3 per game, and the amount of effort he puts in is unbelieveable.
James Foster and Ryan Sidebottom? Haven't they proven substandard when they were picked?
 

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