How would 80s WI and 2000s Australia fare in unbeatable current India?

[_00_deathscar]

India from 2013-2019 won 82% of their tests at home.
Any long-ish period between 2013-2024 split up into various sections (I didn't try too many permutations but 2016-2019, 2014-2019 etc), India have won roughly ~75-80% of their tests.
With one exception - since the turn of the decade, they've 'only' won 68.75% of their tests, and lost 3. In comparison, they lost 1 test (!) from 2013-2019.

On another note, the 'problem' with one of subz arguments (or whoever else made that point at one stage) that any substandard spinner can come to spicy Indian pitches and take wickets is that Root averages 38 in India, and he's taken 14 wickets in 19 innings in which he's bowled, of which, as we all know, 5 wickets came in that one freak spell of 5/8 - and even then for that series, he 'only' averaged 23.50.
This series, presumably as a result of that past freak accident, he's been given a much bigger bowling load (115 overs in 4 tests so far vs 45 overs in the last 4 test series), and he's averaging 50.
Freak incidents/innings like that happen - it doesn't mean Root is a great bowler or that Jadeja/Ashwin are crap bowlers who only take wickets on raging turners.

 

[Sunil1z]

I thought the debate was done and dusted and everyone had moved on . But there is always someone who needs to revive a dead topic

 

[subshakerz]

India from 2013-2019 won 82% of their tests at home.
Any long-ish period between 2013-2024 split up into various sections (I didn't try too many permutations but 2016-2019, 2014-2019 etc), India have won roughly ~75-80% of their tests.
With one exception - since the turn of the decade, they've 'only' won 68.75% of their tests, and lost 3. In comparison, they lost 1 test (!) from 2013-2019.

On another note, the 'problem' with one of subz arguments (or whoever else made that point at one stage) that any substandard spinner can come to spicy Indian pitches and take wickets is that Root averages 38 in India, and he's taken 14 wickets in 19 innings in which he's bowled, of which, as we all know, 5 wickets came in that one freak spell of 5/8 - and even then for that series, he 'only' averaged 23.50.
This series, presumably as a result of that past freak accident, he's been given a much bigger bowling load (115 overs in 4 tests so far vs 45 overs in the last 4 test series), and he's averaging 50.
Freak incidents/innings like that happen - it doesn't mean Root is a great bowler or that Jadeja/Ashwin are crap bowlers who only take wickets on raging turners.

I don't argue that. There have been spinners who failed obviously. I argue that the odds of poor spinners getting rich returns is much higher than any previous decade because of pitches.

 

[_00_deathscar]

I don't argue that. There have been spinners who failed obviously. I argue that the odds of poor spinners getting rich returns is much higher than any previous decade because of pitches.

Didn't Michael Clarke run through an Indian batting line up too? That was pre Ashwin/Jadeja, and stronger batting lineups, in the 'flat pitch' era (though this 'raging turners era' theory isn't really valid - they haven't been that commonplace, and certainly not in the early to mid Ashwin/Jadeja era - only really in the last 3-4 years. And as per recent tests, it looks like that eras done too).

Sometimes, **** happens. Maybe the recent ones are more stuck in your head cos they're...well, recent.

 

[_00_deathscar]

I thought the debate was done and dusted and everyone had moved on . But there is always someone who needs to revive a dead topic

Talking about some old fart teams was far more boring, let's be honest. They can go in the old fart threads.

 

[Sunil1z]

Talking about some old fart teams was far more boring, let's be honest. They can go in the old fart threads.

Yeah we want another thread to discuss Ashwin Jadeja as if 5 other thread on similar topics aren’t enough

 

[_00_deathscar]

Yeah we want another thread to discuss Ashwin Jadeja as if 5 other thread on similar topics aren’t enough

I mean this thread is literally about that so...yea.

 

[Nintendo]

4th test In India, VS AUS:
Gill for rahane, axar for kuldeep
IND XI:
1.Rohit
2.KL
3.PUjara
4.Kohli
5.Rahane
6.Pant
7.Jadeja
8.Ashwin
9.Kuldeep
10.Bumrah
11.Shami

Clarke (stu) for mcgill, lee for gillespie.
AUS XI:
1.Hayden
2.Langer
3.Ponting
4.Mark Waugh
5.Steve Waugh
6.Clarke
7.Gilchrist
8.Warne
9.Mcgill
10Gillepsie
11.Mcgrath

Seamer's Pitch, India win the toss and bat.

Lunch day 1: 102/2 M clarke 1-6 Warne 1-25 Rahul 35* Rohit 33

Tea day 1: 222/6 Rahul 71 Gill 41 M clarke 3-13 Warne 3-69


India 228 All out: Rahul 71(173) 7 x 4, Warne 5-73

End of day 1: 84/2 Hayden 33 Ponting 30* Jadeja 1-14 Shami 1-19

Lunch day 2: 166/5 A patel 2-23 Ponting 72*

Tea day 2: 301/6 Ponting 135 Gilchrist 70* Bumrah 2-58

End of day 2: Australia 392 All out: Ponting 135(235) 21 x 4, Gilchrist 86(124) 11 x 4, Warne 42(74) 8 x 4, A patel 3-76 Bumrah 3-90

Lunch day 3: 112/3 Pujara 54* Gill 32* Clark 1-17 Mcgrath 1-19

Tea day 3: 222/7 Pujara 111* Warne 3-87

India 240 aLL OUT: Pujara 126(214) 17 x 4, Warne 5-97, Clark 2-28

End of day 3: 79/0 Australia win by 10 wickets: Langer 53* (40) 11 x 4, Hayden 26* (25) 4 x 4.

Series 2-1 Australia going into the last match,

Warne MOTM

Scorecards:

 

[Nintendo]

5th test In India, VS AUS:

IND XI:
1.Rohit
2.KL
3.PUjara
4.Kohli
5.Rahane
6.Pant
7.Jadeja
8.Ashwin
9.Kuldeep
10.Bumrah
11.Shami

AUS XI:
1.Hayden
2.Langer
3.Ponting
4.Mark Waugh
5.Steve Waugh
6.Clarke
7.Gilchrist
8.Warne
9.Clark
10.Lee
11.Mcgrath

Seam friendly pitch, india win the toss and bat

Lunch day 1: 82/1 Rahul 40* Pujara 26*

Tea day 1: 175/4 Pujara 46 Kohli 45* Warne 2-45

End of day 1: 269/7 Kohli 50 Warne 4-87

India 296 All out: Kohli 50(90) 7 x 4, Jadeja 48(122) 5 x 4, Warne 6-95

Lunch day 2: 36/0 Langer 17* Hayden 13*

Tea day 2: 131/5 Ponting 35 Jadeja 2-23 Shami 2-26

End of day 2: 204/8 Clarke 55* Jadeja 3-43 Axar 2-24

Lunch day 3: 256.9 Clarke 99*

Australia 275 All out: Clarke 108* (285) 15 x 4 1 x 6,

Tea day 3: 68/0 Rohit 36* Rahul 31*

End of day 3: 167/1 Rahul 77* Rohit 51 Mcgrath 1-38

Lunch day 4: 267/5 Rahul 86 Pujara 61 S Clark 2-26

Tea day 4: India 399/8 Declared: Rahul 86(169) 13 x 4, Jadeja 75(91) 11 x 4, Pujara 61 (152) 6 x 4, Pant 59(111) 6 x 4 1 x 6, Clark 3-65 Warne 3-135

End of day 4: 64/1 Hayden 27* Patel 1-10

Lunch day 5: 141/4 Ponting 45 Hayden 38 Bumrah 2-30

Australia 206 All out, India win by 214 runs: Ponting 45(119) 4 x 4, Bumrah 6-48.

Series drawn 2-2, Jadeja MOTM. Jadeja overall for the series: 427 runs @47.5, 19 wickets @25. Probably MOTS. I'll do other notable series performances and scorecards tommorow.

 

[Coronis]

I like that Warne got a 10’fer on a seamer’s pitch in India.

 

[Xix2565]

Series drawn 2-2, Jadeja MOTM. Jadeja overall for the series: 427 runs @47.5, 19 wickets @25. Probably MOTS. I'll do other notable series performances and scorecards tommorow.

Jadeja absolutely turning up for Australia in real life and sims. Jeez they really have no escape.

 

[subshakerz]

Didn't Michael Clarke run through an Indian batting line up too? That was pre Ashwin/Jadeja, and stronger batting lineups, in the 'flat pitch' era (though this 'raging turners era' theory isn't really valid - they haven't been that commonplace, and certainly not in the early to mid Ashwin/Jadeja era - only really in the last 3-4 years. And as per recent tests, it looks like that eras done too).

Sometimes, **** happens. Maybe the recent ones are more stuck in your head cos they're...well, recent.

Clarke was one test. Look at the 80s and 90s and tell me how many times foreign spinners had great tour figures for a series and then look at the overall performances of foreign spinners this decade compared to the rest. Tahir/Harmer in 2015. O'Keefe in 2017. Patel in 2021. Lyon multiple times. And then debutant spinners like Murphy, Kuhenman, Hartley, Shoaib, all immediately making a mark as if it is a magic coincidence.

No so, **** doesn't just happen.

 

[R!TTER]

Didn't Michael Clarke run through an Indian batting line up too? That was pre Ashwin/Jadeja, and stronger batting lineups, in the 'flat pitch' era (though this 'raging turners era' theory isn't really valid - they haven't been that commonplace, and certainly not in the early to mid Ashwin/Jadeja era - only really in the last 3-4 years. And as per recent tests, it looks like that eras done too).

Depends on what you call a raging turner - a lot of that narrative is simply inbuilt in S.E.N.A. teams &/or their supporters that any time you win in India it has to be against (colossal) odds! Which is frankly BS - winning toss in Asia is generally very helpful in that you bat first 9/10 times & the results would probably favor you more of then than not. It's only really in Winters or on a dampish pitch you need to think twice. If you ask me there's been only about 4-6 really diabolical pitches since 2004 Mumbai. Admittedly I don't remember all the games since then but it should be - Nagpur 2015, Bangalore 2017, Ahmadabad (3rd test) 2021 & last year Indore 2023, it's funny how Pune gets remembered because Oz won (yet scored 200+ scores twice?) but not the next game which was on an objectively worse pitch! How am I counting them? Look at the scores across first 2-3 innings if they are consistently low or going down it's not a good pitch. Do you also call Broad's test where he took 8/15 as a mine greenfield or whatever?

O'Keefe in 2017. Patel in 2021. Lyon multiple times. And then debutant spinners like Murphy, Kuhenman, Hartley, Shoaib, all immediately making a mark as if it is a magic coincidence.

Yeah I mean you've obviously forgotten about 21/9 by Oz 12+ years back, or the Brisbane test vs SA in 2022 or the last test of our tour in SA earlier this year? You're telling me you haven't figured out why there's more/frequent collapses in the last 15 years or so

 

[R!TTER]

Also, it gave Virat his first couple of Test wickets!

And that's why it's BS, anyone giving wickets to Kohli in a test should just GTFO of the orbit of this planet & book a one way ticket to Mars

 

[subshakerz]

Yeah I mean you've obviously forgotten about 21/9 by Oz 12+ years back, or the Brisbane test vs SA in 2022 or the last test of our tour in SA earlier this year? You're telling me you haven't figured out why there's more/frequent collapses in the last 15 years or so

SA pitches have been consistently pace friendly. Not so Australia.

 

[_00_deathscar]

Clarke was one test. Look at the 80s and 90s and tell me how many times foreign spinners had great tour figures for a series and then look at the overall performances of foreign spinners this decade compared to the rest. Tahir/Harmer in 2015. O'Keefe in 2017. Patel in 2021. Lyon multiple times. And then debutant spinners like Murphy, Kuhenman, Hartley, Shoaib, all immediately making a mark as if it is a magic coincidence.

O Keefe was decent and come on, Lyon is clearly a good player. You’ve said it yourself (you rate him well ahead of Jadeja and somewhere near Ashwin) so no idea what he’s doing in that list. “Oh look a good player performed well! The pitches must have been ****”.

Patel also really had one test and was the only half threatening NZ bowler through so they just played him off and killed the rest. If you actually saw that test instead of going on stats, his bowling was nothing amazing. He wasn’t bad or anything like that but it was one of the weakest big hauls ever. His thing was that he was considerably better than the other trash so they tried to go after the others (which was easy). When they went after him, they got out. A real ripping 6-fer/7-fer like Ashwin and Jadeja have produced time and again at home are far more valuable than his 10-fer, as fun as it was.
Don’t go by the stats

Murphy remains to be seen how he goes but seems like a good player.
Hartley, Shoaib etc all have had one decent test - if Leach was fit at least one of them would be dumped regardless of how good their one test was. And Leach isn’t even a great bowler or anything.
You’re taking a ton of one off tests and putting it all together. Only really top spinners have performed, and even then it’s not like Lyon has outperformed Jadeja and Ashwin at home in supposedly helpful conditions over the course of their respective careers (though he’s definitely had some very good series).

 

[honestbharani]

But there is always someone who needs to revive a dead topic

Its really just the same someone though.

 

[Socerer 01]

2nd test, In India, VS AUS:

IND XI:
1.Rohit
2.KL
3.PUjara
4.Kohli
5.Rahane
6.Pant
7.Jadeja
8.Ashwin
9.Kuldeep
10.Bumrah
11.Shami

AUS XI:
1.Hayden
2.Langer
3.Ponting
4.Mark Waugh
5.Steve Waugh
6.Clarke
7.Gilchrist
8.Warne
9.Mcgill
10Gillepsie
11.Mcgrath

Spinners Pitch, Australia win the toss and bat:

Lunch day 1: 97/6 S Waugh 21 Jadeja 3-26 Bumrah 2-13

Australia 116 All out: Bumrah 5-24, Jadeja 4-34

Tea day 1: 38/0 Rohit 22* Rahul 15*

End of day 1: 143/1 Rahul 55* Pujara 51* Warne 1-37

Lunch day 2: 239/4 Rahul 63 Pujara 60 Warne 2-70 Clarke 1-12

Tea day 2: 352/5 Kohli 87*

End of day 2: 444/6 Kohli 134*

India 492 All out: Kohli 134(272) 18 x 4, Rahul 63(165) 5 x 4 1 x 6, Jadeja 63(114) 6 x 4, Ashwin 62* (97) 11 X 4, Pujara 60(78) 11 x 4, Warne 5-161

Lunch day 3: 44/0 Langer 23* Hayden 19*

Tea day 3: 124/4 Langer 27 M Waugh 26 Shami 2-32

Australia 189 ALL OUT, INDIA WIN BY AN INNINGS AND 187 RUNS:

Gilchrist 35(65) 6 x 4, Jadeja 3-16, Shami 3-41. Jadeja MOTM

Scorecards:
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this has to be the most funny result especially if you did it on the latest cricket captain

 

[Socerer 01]

I like that Warne got a 10’fer on a seamer’s pitch in India.

most accurate cricket captain moment

 

[Socerer 01]

Its really just the same someone though.

haha idk how he keeps going on and on about the same **** despite being disproven so many times