Hayden calls subcontinental batsmen 'selfish'

[Swervy]

Getting personal, Aren't you ?? If I dont play international cricket, then you dont either so just lay off. what I do or dont shouldn't bother you, you dont know me enough to pass a judgment about me. It's because of people like you this thread go to 3rd page where I made my first comment.
I didn't start this thread, neither did I post until this thread reached the 3rd page where many Aussie fans were jumping with broken records like 'He does have a point'.

It is very silly of you to say that Hayden & co. know quite a few things about how Indians approach their batting during a milestone but when you actually look at the score cards, it doesn't really support their information. Is it possible that their Indormation could be wrong ?? Oh wait, How can John Buchanan and his team be wrong, they are always right. Indians must be selfish.

Its not me claiming an ability to read peoples minds......all I am saying is that maybe Hayden has a point, what you are saying is that he definitely doesnt have a point...no-one yet has come up with a reason as to why this talented Indian batting line up (and I stress , supposedly better than Australias) cant get the runs on the board.....Could it possibly be that Hayden has a point???? Maybe the pressure put on Indian players is so great that they may start thinking about personal performances for fear of being considered a failure..and maybe a measure of success and failure is ones average. Now I am not saying this is absolutely right, but I just dont know how anyone on here can dismiss it has being total and utter ********.

 

[Sanz]

Did you watch the England vs WI game with that TV of yours which somehow delves deep into the minds of the players????

It could easily be said that WI could have declared hours before they did to give the WI's a decent chance of getting the 20 wickets needed to win the game!!!! Now I know a lot of WI fans have defended Laras decision to continue, by saying that him getting the record did a lot for WI cricket..and fair enough..but many other people publicly said that lara was being selfish and jepodising WI chances of winning.

Now Australia to be honest were cruising, that game was always going to be an Aussie win...an extra twenty minutes wasnt going to ruin that was it... idont even think he batted until tea on the second day....so the situation was completely different.

Are you comparing a fickle minded cricket fan with Ricky Ponting, Captain of the Best Cricket Team in the world ?? Show me one WI cricketer who called Lara's 400 as a Selfish knock. I didn't see that game but If 2&1/2 days were not enough for WI to bowl out England then I guess 20 more overs wouldn't have been enough either esp when Thorpe was still out there.

And how can say that Aussies were going to win the test before Zimbabwe had faced a single ball? It is very easy to make comments in hindsight.

 

[Slow Love™]

Well he is trying to wind them up..with something the Australian team perceive as being the truth (it can still be a wind up and the truth you know)....now whether it is or it isnt almost doesnt matter, its the perception that matters..the Aussies have latched onto something which they consider a weakness however minor it may be...but we all know how this team works...they got for those minor weaknesses.

Who knows what the effect on the Indian team will be..maybe some memebers of the team might start wondering about someone else...doubt creeps in..or maybe its already there, and Australia have just picked up on that in the past..I dont know for sure, and Sanz and chums dont know for sure....so how the hell can Sanz say that Hayden is BSing...he has no idea.

Well, yeah, we've all acknowledged that the comments are intended to be psychologically intimidating. The issue is whether or not his comments have some basis in fact or not. It's something that should certainly be open to debate (particularly as it's the subject of the thread), and I don't begrudge anyone for getting annoyed at the allegation. The comments about Waugh that I've alluded to still pi$$ me off - he was my favorite player and I think the accusation is a real smear. So it shouldn't be hard to see why Sanz might be ****ed off. Also, this whole "overreaction" thing - Sanz isn't hanging himself from the rafters, he's just arguing in an internet forum in a thread on the subject. Just like you are. Let's try and keep some perspective.

sorry I missed the point in the 'interview' which gave a timescale on when Hayden was talking about..I think he was talking pretty generally throughout the so called interview (has anyone grabbed hold of the transcript of the entire interview..or is that it)

I didn't give a timescale either, other than "recently". And if Hayden's not talking about anything remotely recent, surely his comments are completely irrelevant.

What i was trying to mean (sorry if it came over wrong) was that it would look a little daft if Team A that rarely beats Team B starts going on about how Team B plays etc...when Team B are actually World Champs etc.

You mean like when New Zealand do exactly that, and everybody praises them for their ability to specifically target Australian player's weaknesses? No, it still seems like a daft comment to me, sorry.

And you brush off Hayden's breathtaking generalisation about subcontinental teams far too easily. You could at least try and be a little more objective and be critical of that, rather than pointlessly splitting hairs over the words "teams" and "batsmen".

 

[Swervy]

Are you comparing a fickle minded cricket fan with Ricky Ponting, Captain of the Best Cricket Team in the world ?? Show me one WI cricketer who called Lara's 400 as a Selfish knock. I didn't see that game but If 2&1/2 days were not enough for WI to bowl out England then I guess 20 more overs wouldn't have been enough either esp when Thorpe was still out there.

And how can say that Aussies were going to win the test before Zimbabwe had faced a single ball? It is very easy to make comments in hindsight.

here you go again..trying to read peopels mind..and failing. When did I say Australia were going to win the test before a ball was bowled...however I think with the score at lunch on the second day at 524/5 vs Zimbabwe does strongly suggest an Australian win was pretty much the only result.

Fickle minded cricket fan??? How about someone like Andy Roberts (an ex WI player) who was commentating at the time.

The WI score was 595 at the end of the second day with lara on 313*. Do you think Lara would have continued for much more that getting the score to say 620 before declaring if the world record wasnt on??? 620 is a pretty reasonable score to declare on, if you want to win a game. The WI batted a whole 41 overs passed that. If they had have declared then England would have had to have batted a 270 overs in two innings to save the game..so 41 overs (not 20) is a fair chunk of cricket....but lara wasnt going for the win..that much was obvious

 

[Swervy]

And you brush off Hayden's breathtaking generalisation about subcontinental teams far too easily. You could at least try and be a little more objective and be critical of that, rather than pointlessly splitting hairs over the words "teams" and "batsmen".

OK..i will concede that point...but again we dont know the full context of what was said. These are cricketers not professional public speakers, I would be very surprised if he meant every single Asian player is selfish...but OK I take your point

 

[Sanz]

Its not me claiming an ability to read peoples minds......all I am saying is that maybe Hayden has a point, what you are saying is that he definitely doesnt have a point...no-one yet has come up with a reason as to why this talented Indian batting line up (and I stress , supposedly better than Australias) cant get the runs on the board.....Could it possibly be that Hayden has a point???? Maybe the pressure put on Indian players is so great that they may start thinking about personal performances for fear of being considered a failure..and maybe a measure of success and failure is ones average. Now I am not saying this is absolutely right, but I just dont know how anyone on here can dismiss it has being total and utter ********.

You clearly have not read my posts carefully. I have mentioned the reason why Hayden doesn't have a point. I have watched almost all cricket matches and since morning have looked at the scorecards during milestones of most Indian batsmen in last 2 years and nothing in the scorecard and nothing seems to suggest ( not even remotely) what Hayden has been referring to.

India's problem is its BOWLING, not Batting. Since 2000 ICC KO trophy, against Australia, India have put up scores of 265, 315, 248, 299, 245, 265, 128, 234, 283, 209, 286, 198, 270, 303, 296, 203, 222, 151 which is about 245 runs per innings. If you consider that as a Batting failure then I am sure you have no knowledge of CRICKET.

 

[Swervy]

You clearly have not read my posts carefully. I have mentioned the reason why Hayden doesn't have a point. I have watched almost all cricket matches and since morning have looked at the scorecards during milestones of most Indian batsmen in last 2 years and nothing in the scorecard and nothing seems to suggest ( not even remotely) what Hayden has been referring to.

India's problem is its BOWLING, not Batting. Since 2000 ICC KO trophy, against Australia, India have put up scores of 265, 315, 248, 299, 245, 265, 128, 234, 283, 209, 286, 198, 270, 303, 296, 203, 222, 151 which is about 245 runs per innings. If you consider that as a Batting failure then I am sure you have no knowledge of CRICKET.

another person that clings to statistics I see..well not everything that happens on the cricket field translates over onto a scorecard...the sooner people get to know that the better....was it Slow Love who said you werent overreacting...if spending all your day going through each and every scorecard of all the ODI's India has played in the last two years just to try and prove Hayden wrong isnt going overboard I dont know what is.

yep you are right fairly good scoring by India there...but if Hayden does have a point (and again, he might do) maybe they could have scored even more runs....you have to admit, for all the talent this Indian team has batting wise, it doesnt translate into the vast scores they should be getting

 

[Sanz]

here you go again..trying to read peopels mind..and failing. When did I say Australia were going to win the test before a ball was bowled...however I think with the score at lunch on the second day at 524/5 vs Zimbabwe does strongly suggest an Australian win was pretty much the only result.

Now denying your own statements ?? Does this ring any bells :-

Now Australia to be honest were cruising, that game was always going to be an Aussie win..

The WI score was 595 at the end of the second day with lara on 313*. Do you think Lara would have continued for much more that getting the score to say 620 before declaring if the world record wasnt on??? 620 is a pretty reasonable score to declare on, if you want to win a game. The WI batted a whole 41 overs passed that. If they had have declared then England would have had to have batted a 270 overs in two innings to save the game..so 41 overs (not 20) is a fair chunk of cricket....but lara wasnt going for the win..that much was obvious

In the recent past teams with weaker bowling attack have done this, India did it in Sydeny, and then again in Pakistan we declared after 675 runs. Australia has the luxury of a good bowling attack which Teams like India, WI dont have. So it is not right to call them as selfish. There is no way you could prove that England was going to lose the test had Lara declared it earlier.

 

[Swervy]

Now denying your own statements ?? Does this ring any bells :-

Now Australia to be honest were cruising, that game was always going to be an Aussie win...

Erm you have lost me..the fact that I said cruising suggests that the result was in no doubt whilst the game was going ahead (I would have thought pretty much by tea on the first day).

In the recent past teams with weaker bowling attack have done this, India did it in Sydeny, and then again in Pakistan we declared after 675 runs. Australia has the luxury of a good bowling attack which Teams like India, WI dont have. So it is not right to call them as selfish. There is no way you could prove that England was going to lose the test had Lara declared it earlier.

no you are right it didnt guarantee anything, but if you were going for a win, wouldnt you give your team every chance of bowling the opposition out.

I personally think Lara wasnt selfish really, I think the WI has a gameplan to avoid defeat...but you see that isnt in Australias vocabulary at the moment, they go out to win every game...going out to draw doesnt come into it.

Now Haydens innings didnt jepodise in anyway Australias abilty to win that game,Laras helped draw the game...in both cases the record innings helped acheive the objective.

 

[Sanz]

another person that clings to statistics I see..well not everything that happens on the cricket field translates over onto a scorecard...the sooner people get to know that the better....was it Slow Love who said you werent overreacting...if spending all your day going through each and every scorecard of all the ODI's India has played in the last two years just to try and prove Hayden wrong isnt going overboard I dont know what is.

Did I say that I have watched most of these matches as well ?? I am sure my eyes can't see everything that goes on the field, scorecards cant capture everything, but I am sure Hayden can spot the insider info despite everything I have watched and read in the score books claims otherwise.
As for me spending my entire day, At least I have looked at Indian batsmen's performance over the years and come to the conclusion that whatever Hayden has been saying is utter ******** whereas you have continued to beat the same drum thoughout the day that Hayden has a point without actually reasoning.

yep you are right fairly good scoring by India there...but if Hayden does have a point (and again, he might do) maybe they could have scored even more runs....you have to admit, for all the talent this Indian team has batting wise, it doesnt translate into the vast scores they should be getting

Or may be Indian bowlers could have taken some more wickets and then Hayden wouldn't have to reveal such free 'Insider Information' to the world.

I am satisfied by Indian batting overll, except for few hiccups they have done alright against every opposition. Cricket is a team game where bowlers have to bowl well too, Batsmen alone cant win you matches all the time. Hayden knows that too, he knows that Indian batting is India's strength and he is trying to psyche them out, If you believe that He has a point then good for you. Keep believeing in that kind of BS while ignoring all the facts.

 

[Swervy]

Did I say that I have watched most of these matches as well ?? I am sure my eyes can't see everything that goes on the field, scorecards cant capture everything, but I am sure Hayden can spot the insider info despite everything I have watched and read in the score books claims otherwise.
As for me spending my entire day, At least I have looked at Indian batsmen's performance over the years and come to the conclusion that whatever Hayden has been saying is utter ******** whereas you have continued to beat the same drum thoughout the day that Hayden has a point without actually reasoning.



Or may be Indian bowlers could have taken some more wickets and then Hayden wouldn't have to reveal such free 'Insider Information' to the world.

I am satisfied by Indian batting overll, except for few hiccups they have done alright against every opposition. Cricket is a team game where bowlers have to bowl well too, Batsmen alone cant win you matches all the time. Hayden knows that too, he knows that Indian batting is India's strength and he is trying to psyche them out, If you believe that He has a point then good for you. Keep believeing in that kind of BS while ignoring all the facts.

You see, at no point have I said I think Hayden is right...you assume that because I appear to be taking the opposite stance to you that I must be agreeing with everything he is saying.

All I am saying is that he might have a point...thats different to completely agreeing with what he says. At the beginning of all this , I just defended his right to say it..its his opinion
Its you who is being narrowminded enough to completely dismiss what he says without seeing any possiblity that he may have a point..and thats because you are taking it personally for some reason.

I am persoanlly sick of going around in circles on this one...My arguement is that anything is possible , your is that what Hayden is saying is impossible...you arent going to budge from that, and I am not going to budge from the anything possible side of things...so lets call it quits

 

[Son Of Coco]

The examples I gave included both. I was talking about Sachin's last 5-6 centuries in ODIs, some of his personal ODI milestones and 5-6 recent centuries by Laxman & Yuvraj in Austalia & Pakistan. I seriously didn't see much difference. Now unless Hayden wants us to take a look at all the Innings played by subcontinent batsmen since 1975 and analyze all of them, I can safely say that whatever he says doesn't have an iota of truth about it.

Well, you can offer that up as your opinion, you can't safely say anything though - and neither can I. haha

 

[Son Of Coco]

I don't have a problem with hayden or anyone for that matter to give their opinons, I just think they are not really words of wisdom and are not necessarily true. To me Steve waugh was the best captian ever, and probably the toughest cricketer, but a lot of times his comments were a load of crap. I don't see any benefits from mind games at all, but most of the times its AUS that are trying to play mind games if any, and they can if they like, I just dont think it works.

If one person in any of the other teams has reacted like some of the people on here then it's already worked.

 

[Son Of Coco]

Are you comparing a fickle minded cricket fan with Ricky Ponting, Captain of the Best Cricket Team in the world ?? Show me one WI cricketer who called Lara's 400 as a Selfish knock. I didn't see that game but If 2&1/2 days were not enough for WI to bowl out England then I guess 20 more overs wouldn't have been enough either esp when Thorpe was still out there.

And how can say that Aussies were going to win the test before Zimbabwe had faced a single ball? It is very easy to make comments in hindsight.

The pace Hayden scored his runs at (and does in general) suggests that he didn't take up too much time in getting to 380.

 

[Son Of Coco]

Did I say that I have watched most of these matches as well ?? I am sure my eyes can't see everything that goes on the field, scorecards cant capture everything, but I am sure Hayden can spot the insider info despite everything I have watched and read in the score books claims otherwise.
As for me spending my entire day, At least I have looked at Indian batsmen's performance over the years and come to the conclusion that whatever Hayden has been saying is utter ******** whereas you have continued to beat the same drum thoughout the day that Hayden has a point without actually reasoning.



Or may be Indian bowlers could have taken some more wickets and then Hayden wouldn't have to reveal such free 'Insider Information' to the world.

I am satisfied by Indian batting overll, except for few hiccups they have done alright against every opposition. Cricket is a team game where bowlers have to bowl well too, Batsmen alone cant win you matches all the time. Hayden knows that too, he knows that Indian batting is India's strength and he is trying to psyche them out, If you believe that He has a point then good for you. Keep believeing in that kind of BS while ignoring all the facts.

And stop quoting what you believe as being the "facts". You're entitled to your opinion as is everyone else, but so many people on here seem to mix up what they think and what they know, and that's BS. I personally don't believe there's any reason for a big uproar over what Hayden said, and he may well come out of it looking foolish (especially if India kick our ****). He might be right, he might be wrong..........and we're never going to convince each other that what we believe is fact!

 

[marc71178]

Why shouldn't I have a go at Aussies esp when so many aussies coming here and supporting a lame and idiotic statement by an aussie whose main purpose was to strike psychological blow than stating the facts.

Whereas be having a go at Hayden for "slow scoring" in the recent game you've really taken the facts in context haven't you...

 

[maxpower]

If one person in any of the other teams has reacted like some of the people on here then it's already worked.

it works in a way that the other team say something senseless in return, it does not make difference on field according to me. there have been times when verbal talk "on field" has worked, not "off field" talks.

p.s: who knows hayden said that to hide the fact the he has'nt scored that many 100's in 1day's.

 

[marc71178]

Either way, given the context of Hayden's comments, it seems ironic and silly to berate people responding to them for looking for "excuses to have a go at Australia and Australians" - don't you think?

If it were an isolated incident, I'd agree, but the having a go by the member hasn't just been restricted to this thread (where the reason he is having a go is flawed)

 

[marc71178]

Looked at Sehwag's 200 & 300 (in same inning) nothing noticable again, Looked at Sehwag's 195 in Aus, no signs again, Dravid's 100 & 200 in Pak again no signs, couple of recent centuries by other Indian batsmen Yuvraj & Laxman, in Aus, Nothing so far . What the Hell is Hayden talking about then ?

For a start, he's talking about ODI's...

 

[marc71178]

And now Hayden making another ridiculous statement that players from subcontinent are selfish when nearing a personal milestone. You know what, I wish Sehwag had been little selfish in Melbourne Test and wasted a couple of balls, batted with some patience and to get his double century.

Because that has so much relevance to the article doesn't it?

Did you actually read it or did you just use it as an excuse to have a go at the Aussies (not that you seem to need an excuse judging by recent threads)