Hayden calls subcontinental batsmen 'selfish'

[Swervy]

Whatever Hayden is saying is a load of bull. Hayden has a made a sweeping statement ahead of the Indian tour to have a go at the Indian batsman. If he is really serious then he should come up with some statistics to prove his point. I looked at Tendulkar's last 5 centuries and couple of other milestones he reached and I dont see any difference. The flow of his innings at the time of milestone isn't really noticable. Looked at Sehwag's 200 & 300 (in same inning) nothing noticable again, Looked at Sehwag's 195 in Aus, no signs again, Dravid's 100 & 200 in Pak again no signs, couple of recent centuries by other Indian batsmen Yuvraj & Laxman, in Aus, Nothing so far . What the Hell is Hayden talking about then ?


As for you assuming that I am having a go at Aussie , you can assume whatever you want and keep supporting the ridiculous claims made by him and his team mates. I dont intend to prove anything to you or aussie member of this forum.

First off..he is talking about ODI's.

secondly..he isnt the only one who has said this kind of thing about this..have a read of the article......"Hayden's theory will give backing to some of India's critics at home, who fear players can too easily lose sight of team goals for the sake of personal achievements due to the enormous and lucrative cult-hero status bestowed upon them in the cricket-mad country."


He is saying that Australia always fancy their chances vs these teams (yes India is one of them), because as a team they see this type of thing as a potential weakness...and if a team who tends to whip Indias bottom nearly everytime they meet each other in ODI's spots this problem..then I would say the Indian management or coach or whoever should maybe look at this...because whether it is a problem doesnt matter, what matters is what the perceived problem is...and this perceived problem is mentally putting Australia on a high.

Look I cant see what the big issue is..Australia get the results through teamwork and solid play throughout the line up...now plenty of people have said that Indias batting is more talented than Australia..so why cant they score the runs like Australia can...there is something wrong and maybe Hayden has highlighted something that is a problem in their eyes.

 

[Son Of Coco]

Whatever Hayden is saying is a load of bull. Hayden has a made a sweeping statement ahead of the Indian tour to have a go at the Indian batsman. If he is really serious then he should come up with some statistics to prove his point. I looked at Tendulkar's last 5 centuries and couple of other milestones he reached and I dont see any difference. The flow of his innings at the time of milestone isn't really noticable. Looked at Sehwag's 200 & 300 (in same inning) nothing noticable again, Looked at Sehwag's 195 in Aus, no signs again, Dravid's 100 & 200 in Pak again no signs, couple of recent centuries by other Indian batsmen Yuvraj & Laxman, in Aus, Nothing so far . What the Hell is Hayden talking about then ?


As for you assuming that I am having a go at Aussie , you can assume whatever you want and keep supporting the ridiculous claims made by him and his team mates. I dont intend to prove anything to you or aussie member of this forum.

Well, I was under the impression he was talking about one-day cricket for a start. Read the article again.

I agree Swervy, I don't think he's just made an off-the-cuff remark cause he felt like saying something. Maybe it was a bit of gamesmanship, maybe he was asked what he saw as being the weaknesses in some of the other teams, to jump on it and say that it's just another example of Australian cricketers doing this and that is just as bad saying that other people are using this as an excuse to have a go at Aus. It cuts both ways..........Why does something Hayden would say hurt so bad anyway? As the article suggests - you've heard the same comment before from other areas, so if it's not true then that's fine, move on.

 

[Swervy]

Right, Imagine the same stuff was said by Sehwag or Ganguly about Australian batsmen ? (Rest of the Indian batsmen are too mature to say anything stoopid like that).

Reminds me when Ganguly just made a statement that 'India COULD be no. 1' and whole world ridiculed him replacing the 'COULD' with an 'IS'.

Well if India were number one team in the world then fair enough if they wanted to say that...but it looks a bit silly for a team which is routinely getting whipped to have a go at the better team on how they play the game.

Oh and heres what ganguly had to say whilst we are on the subject:

'I said before that we are the second best side in the world'.....'But if we can win this series then we definitely can be number one'.....

its amazing what a few quotes can look like when taken out of proper context isnt it

 

[Sanz]

It's also astonishing when some people on the forum jump in with comments re: 'the aussies shooting off their mouths', 'the team not being able to score 100's / 400+'. Just off topic, and out of interest when has any team been able to score 400 in a one day match?

I was talking about personal landmarks not teams. When Brian Lara reached his 400, Instead of congratulating him, Ricky Ponting called him selfish( I guess that was out of jealousy BCL brok record of his teammate) and claimed that he would never allow his team mate to go for 400. Hahaha Sure Ricky we believe you.

And now Hayden making another ridiculous statement that players from subcontinent are selfish when nearing a personal milestone. You know what, I wish Sehwag had been little selfish in Melbourne Test and wasted a couple of balls, batted with some patience and to get his double century. He threw his wicket in Melbourne and while for Hayden it may sound like a very unselfish act but for most of the Indians it looked really stupid and we feel that he threw his wicket.

 

[Sanz]

Well if India were number one team in the world then fair enough if they wanted to say that...but it looks a bit silly for a team which is routinely getting whipped to have a go at the better team on how they play the game.

Awww, so it's okay for aussie cricketers to say whatever they want just because they are no. 1. I am sure Hayden looked very wise in making that statement.

 

[Swervy]

I was talking about personal landmarks not teams. When Brian Lara reached his 400, Instead of congratulating him, Ricky Ponting called him selfish( I guess that was out of jealousy BCL brok record of his teammate) and claimed that he would never allow his team mate to go for 400. Hahaha Sure Ricky we believe you.

And now Hayden making another ridiculous statement that players from subcontinent are selfish when nearing a personal milestone. You know what, I wish Sehwag had been little selfish in Melbourne Test and wasted a couple of balls, batted with some patience and to get his double century. He threw his wicket in Melbourne and while for Hayden it may sound like a very unselfish act but for most of the Indians it looked really stupid and we feel that he threw his wicket.

you just dont get it do you...

Why is it ridiculous...why is it so off the mark...how do you know for sure??? You seem to have a knack of being able to read peoples minds Sanz re: Pontings comments over lara.

Regarding the Lara thing..at the time it was widely acknowledged that with each minute lara batted on, so WI's chance of victory was reducing...wasnt Ponting just saying that if it came to a personal landmark over team victory the team would come first..whats wrong with that,makes sense to me.

do you honestly think that ponting, probably in the top 2 batsman form wise in the last 3 years in all forms of cricket, and captain of the worlds most successful team, is going to be jealous of Brian Lara, a living legend who has been put through the mill with his captaincy and had been struggling with the bat pretty much the rst of that series etc...c'mon on now...get real mate

 

[Swervy]

Awww, so it's okay for aussie cricketers to say whatever they want just because they are no. 1. I am sure Hayden looked very wise in making that statement.

well yeah..it does give his opinion a bit of substance when the team he plays for is nigh on unbeatable

I bet you, John Wright, if he hasnt already thought it, is thinking about it now..and may well be considering that is possibly something that needs working on..if he hasnt already done so.

You dont ignore insider info like Hayden has given there..it obvious that its something the Australians have recognised

 

[Sanz]

Well, I was under the impression he was talking about one-day cricket for a start. Read the article again..

The examples I gave included both. I was talking about Sachin's last 5-6 centuries in ODIs, some of his personal ODI milestones and 5-6 recent centuries by Laxman & Yuvraj in Austalia & Pakistan. I seriously didn't see much difference. Now unless Hayden wants us to take a look at all the Innings played by subcontinent batsmen since 1975 and analyze all of them, I can safely say that whatever he says doesn't have an iota of truth about it.

 

[Swervy]

The examples I gave included both. I was talking about Sachin's last 5-6 centuries in ODIs, some of his personal ODI milestones and 5-6 recent centuries by Laxman & Yuvraj in Austalia & Pakistan. I seriously didn't see much difference. Now unless Hayden wants us to take a look at all the Innings played by subcontinent batsmen since 1975 and analyze all of them, I can safely say that whatever he says doesn't have an iota of truth about it.

how do you know????

Have you played international cricket then????

Do you chat with Gangs, and VVS and Rahul and co???

Do you sit in on the Aussies meetings????

 

[maxpower]

That is true, Australia does score at a rate slightly quicker than most teams, also if you're going to go out and have a go you have to be fairly sure that the guy coming in behind you is up to the task if you fail. We have also seen them collapse in Test cricket when they've tried to push it along regardless of the pitch conditions etc.

What he said may or may not have an element of truth in it, but it's just his opinion. I'm not sure what benefit would be gained from prodding Tendulkar, Dravid, Laxman etc etc trying to get them to cut loose. It does seem a little like someone jumps on a quote everytime the Aussie team says something though, and why would Hayden be given the task of playing "mind games" with the opposition? Wouldn't that be better left to Ponting? Is it not entirely possible the quote was used to sell papers before the tournament? I doubt the headline "Hayden slams "selfish" ..........." was what he specifically intended, i.e: slamming players from other countries (unless it's with the bat of course! haha). I'm not saying that he wasn't aware of what he was saying by the way.

I don't have a problem with hayden or anyone for that matter to give their opinons, I just think they are not really words of wisdom and are not necessarily true. To me Steve waugh was the best captian ever, and probably the toughest cricketer, but a lot of times his comments were a load of crap. I don't see any benefits from mind games at all, but most of the times its AUS that are trying to play mind games if any, and they can if they like, I just dont think it works.

 

[Sanz]

well yeah..it does give his opinion a bit of substance when the team he plays for is nigh on unbeatable

I bet you, John Wright, if he hasnt already thought it, is thinking about it now..and may well be considering that is possibly something that needs working on..if he hasnt already done so.

You dont ignore insider info like Hayden has given there..it obvious that its something the Australians have recognised

Not really, what Indian Team needs to do is ignore such statements and prepare their best, strenghten their bowling attack. If they start listening to such crap, then everyday they will see some Aussie cricket players passing on such remarks about them and they will be lost in the psychologcal net being spread by aussie cricketers and everyday India will be learning a new insider information . Thank you sir Hayden for such an Insider information .

 

[Sanz]

how do you know????

Have you played international cricket then????

Do you chat with Gangs, and VVS and Rahul and co???

Do you sit in on the Aussies meetings????

there is something called LIVE TELECAST of matches where you watch batsmen bat and if there is selfishness by the players then it is hard not to notice it. There is also something called BALL-BY-BALL-SCORE-CARD and It will tell you how the batsmen were batting throughout their innings and if the batsmen (during the milestone) were playing slower , it would be pretty noticable.

I love to see smoe aussies supporting their players' stupid acts and then accusing others of over-reacting

 

[Sanz]

you just dont get it do you...

Why is it ridiculous...why is it so off the mark...how do you know for sure??? You seem to have a knack of being able to read peoples minds Sanz re: Pontings comments over lara.

Regarding the Lara thing..at the time it was widely acknowledged that with each minute lara batted on, so WI's chance of victory was reducing...wasnt Ponting just saying that if it came to a personal landmark over team victory the team would come first..whats wrong with that,makes sense to me.

do you honestly think that ponting, probably in the top 2 batsman form wise in the last 3 years in all forms of cricket, and captain of the worlds most successful team, is going to be jealous of Brian Lara, a living legend who has been put through the mill with his captaincy and had been struggling with the bat pretty much the rst of that series etc...c'mon on now...get real mate

Ponting on Lara's 400 :-

Lara's innings a tad selfish, says Ponting

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/04/19/1082326137187.html?from=storyrhs&oneclick=true

But he defends his captain Steve Waugh doing the same thing when Hayden scored 380 and then 400.

"It was a very rare thing what we did with that Zimbabwean Test match, for Matty to be able to bat for as long as he did and go on and make that big score," said Ponting.

"He was given the opportunity to go on and break Brian's record and he did that. He was going to be given another half an hour, or 20 minutes, to try to get to 400 but unfortunately he got out."

Oh wait when an Aussie cricketer does it, it is an exception to the rule but when someone else does it he becomes Selfish, as if 400s are scored everyday. Hypocrisy at its best, I SAY. And Yes Ponting was jealous because the record he wanted his team mate to make was made by someone else.

 

[Slow Love™]

how do you know????

Have you played international cricket then????

Do you chat with Gangs, and VVS and Rahul and co???

Do you sit in on the Aussies meetings????

Where are you going with this? A while ago, you acknowledged that it's a wind-up. Now you're treating it as important "insider information", even though you earlier tried to back up Hayden's claims by saying that there were Indian fans out there who had the same opinion. But there are many Aussie cricket followers out here that believe that Steve Waugh was the most selfish Australian cricketer to wear the baggy green over the last ten years. Sound crazy to you? That's because it is.

You say this whole thing is an overreaction by Indian fans, but nobody likes to see their side unfairly labelled as selfish, and let's be honest - it was clearly a deliberately provocative comment by Hayden. The fact that he added that "all subcontinental batsman are like that" is an absurd generalization, and I'm amazed that you're so willing to defend as an important point what is so clearly just a dig attempting to make the Indians insecure, and one that I for one can't see a lot of evidence of.

If anything, India's problems in the one day format recently seem far more to me a case of not being able to keep their wickets intact, and poor bowling (particularly at the outset of a match) than batsmen spending overs and overs banking up fifties and centuries.

Also, your suggestion that Hayden's personal opinion carries more substance because his team are nigh on invincible is idiotic. The implication is that the opinions of players in sides that are less successful somehow have less substance because of that fact. Huh?

 

[Swervy]

there is something called LIVE TELECAST of matches where you watch batsmen bat and if there is selfishness by the players then it is hard not to notice it. There is also something called BALL-BY-BALL-SCORE CARD and It will tell you how the batsmen were batting throuout their innings and if the batsmen were playing slow, it would be pretty noticable.

I love to see smoe aussies supporting their players' stupid acts and then accusing others of over-reacting

well I just don t see the big deal....this kind of thing has gone on throughout the games history but it seems that as soon as an Aussie says something..BANG!!!!.

Oh and by the way, you can watch all the cricket you want on TV, you still arent going to know really what is going on in the minds of the players,I am sure Mr Hayden and friends have picked up quite a bit of info on teams like India by playing them quite a lot.

Its only people like you who are turning a pretty innane comment into some big thing.....as I say, its all mind games.

its a good job you dont play international cricket isnt it, you would be a nervous wreck

 

[Swervy]

Ponting on Lara's 400 :-

Lara's innings a tad selfish, says Ponting

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/04/19/1082326137187.html?from=storyrhs&oneclick=true

But he defends his captain Steve Waugh doing the same thing when Hayden scored 380 and then 400.

"It was a very rare thing what we did with that Zimbabwean Test match, for Matty to be able to bat for as long as he did and go on and make that big score," said Ponting.

"He was given the opportunity to go on and break Brian's record and he did that. He was going to be given another half an hour, or 20 minutes, to try to get to 400 but unfortunately he got out."

Oh wait when an Aussie cricketer does it, it is an exception to the rule but when someone else does it he becomes Selfish, as if 400s are scored everyday. Hypocrisy at its best, I SAY. And Yes Ponting was jealous because the record he wanted his team mate to make was made by someone else.

Did you watch the England vs WI game with that TV of yours which somehow delves deep into the minds of the players????

It could easily be said that WI could have declared hours before they did to give the WI's a decent chance of getting the 20 wickets needed to win the game!!!! Now I know a lot of WI fans have defended Laras decision to continue, by saying that him getting the record did a lot for WI cricket..and fair enough..but many other people publicly said that lara was being selfish and jepodising WI chances of winning.

Now Australia to be honest were cruising, that game was always going to be an Aussie win...an extra twenty minutes wasnt going to ruin that was it... idont even think he batted until tea on the second day....so the situation was completely different.

 

[Slow Love™]

excellent points..! you make some of the most thoughtful, objective, insightful posts in this forum...much appreciated!

basically the australians win so much because they are that much better than any other team. whatever else these current subcontinent teams can be accused of, i don't think it is selfishness...in fact i can't think of a recent one day match that india lost because some main batsman batted slowly in order to reach a personal milestone and thus hurt the team's chances. i am fairly sure the same is the case with pakistan and sri lanka. also, hitting out and getting out when your team needs you to stay on and guide them through is as criminal a mistake as selfishly slow batting. australia has so many superb batsmen and a really fighting tail, so their top order players can afford to do that, but that's not the case with most other teams.

Hey, thanks for the compliment! I don't get a lot of time to post here, so sometimes I feel like I'm talking in a vacuum.

And yes, I totally agree with you about throwing your wicket. The Aussies can afford it far more than other teams, and there's no reason whatsoever for other teams to play "Australia's game" rather than their own. In less successful periods, Aussie bats had similar tendencies, only we lost all those games, because we just weren't anywhere near as talented as this current lineup. And that's without mentioning the Aussie bowling attack, who are so adept at bowling out the opposition for low scores, and defending low totals.

 

[Sanz]

well I just don t see the big deal....this kind of thing has gone on throughout the games history but it seems that as soon as an Aussie says something..BANG!!!!.

Oh and by the way, you can watch all the cricket you want on TV, you still arent going to know really what is going on in the minds of the players,I am sure Mr Hayden and friends have picked up quite a bit of info on teams like India by playing them quite a lot.

Its only people like you who are turning a pretty innane comment into some big thing.....as I say, its all mind games.

its a good job you dont play international cricket isnt it, you would be a nervous wreck

Getting personal, Aren't you ?? If I dont play international cricket, then you dont either so just lay off. what I do or dont shouldn't bother you, you dont know me enough to pass a judgment about me. It's because of people like you this thread go to 3rd page where I made my first comment.

I didn't start this thread, neither did I post until this thread reached the 3rd page where many Aussie fans were jumping with broken records like 'He does have a point'.

It is very silly of you to say that Hayden & co. know quite a few things about how Indians approach their batting during a milestone but when you actually look at the score cards, it doesn't really support their information. Is it possible that their Indormation could be wrong ?? Oh wait, How can John Buchanan and his team be wrong, they are always right. Indians must be selfish.

 

[Anil]

well yeah..it does give his opinion a bit of substance when the team he plays for is nigh on unbeatable

I bet you, John Wright, if he hasnt already thought it, is thinking about it now..and may well be considering that is possibly something that needs working on..if he hasnt already done so.

You dont ignore insider info like Hayden has given there..it obvious that its something the Australians have recognised

it is not the team(unbeatable or not) you play on that gives substance to what you say, do you mean that since australia is the best, any crap that any team member cares to dish out has to be regarded as "words of substance"? what makes it substantial is whether it is objective, insightful and sensible...and that could come from a kenyan player....

...in this case, i clearly think he is wrong(if he really thinks so) and is probably doing it for psychological intimidation more than anything else....so much for "insider info"!!!

 

[Swervy]

Where are you going with this? A while ago, you acknowledged that it's a wind-up. Now you're treating it as important "insider information", even though you earlier tried to back up Hayden's claims by saying that there were Indian fans out there who had the same opinion. But there are many Aussie cricket followers out here that believe that Steve Waugh was the most selfish Australian cricketer to wear the baggy green over the last ten years. Sound crazy to you? That's because it is

Well he is trying to wind them up..with something the Australian team perceive as being the truth (it can still be a wind up and the truth you know)....now whether it is or it isnt almost doesnt matter, its the perception that matters..the Aussies have latched onto something which they consider a weakness however minor it may be...but we all know how this team works...they got for those minor weaknesses.

Who knows what the effect on the Indian team will be..maybe some memebers of the team might start wondering about someone else...doubt creeps in..or maybe its already there, and Australia have just picked up on that in the past..I dont know for sure, and Sanz and chums dont know for sure....so how the hell can Sanz say that Hayden is BSing...he has no idea.

You say this whole thing is an overreaction by Indian fans, but nobody likes to see their side unfairly labelled as selfish, and let's be honest - it was clearly a deliberately provocative comment by Hayden. The fact that he added that "all subcontinental batsman are like that" is an absurd generalization, and I'm amazed that you're so willing to defend as an important point what is so clearly just a dig attempting to make the Indians insecure, and one that I for one can't see a lot of evidence of.

Well thats the point isnt it...to make the Indians feel insecure..I think we all can guess he was talking about the Indian players (but he did actually say 'pretty much all the subcontinent teams' which isnt saying all of those players...subtle difference)...who are considered (rightly or wrongly) to be Australias biggest threat in ODI's...yep...India...of course is was provocative...but this is professional sport in the 21st century, if you cant stand the heat get out the kitchen.....or start accepting these things in most sports are said...the difference is in most other sports, people dont appear to take great offense at pretty banal comments.Holy smoke!!!!!!

If anything, India's problems in the one day format recently seem far more to me a case of not being able to keep their wickets intact, and poor bowling (particularly at the outset of a match) than batsmen spending overs and overs banking up fifties and centuries..

sorry I missed the point in the 'interview' which gave a timescale on when Hayden was talking about..I think he was talking pretty generally throughout the so called interview (has anyone grabbed hold of the transcript of the entire interview..or is that it)

Also, your suggestion that Hayden's personal opinion carries more substance because his team are nigh on invincible is idiotic. The implication is that the opinions of players in sides that are less successful somehow have less substance because of that fact. Huh?

What i was trying to mean (sorry if it came over wrong) was that it would look a little daft if Team A that rarely beats Team B starts going on about how Team B plays etc...when Team B are actually World Champs etc.

So if you wish to read that in what I said, then thats up to you..and I apologise if thats what it looked like...however someone before said something like What does Hayden know, there are plenty of more experienced players out there who ont shout their mouths off...well all I say is someone who has played for the world number one team for 10 years should have a pretty good idea of whats what in international cricket