Hashim Amla- the most misleading odi stats ever

[Burgey]

Just rewatched the 99 Super Six highlights and the 03 WC Final highlights again. Good times.

 

[Zinzan]

Just rewatched the 99 Super Six highlights and the 03 WC Final highlights again. Good times.

Shame you missed watching the NZ/Aust pool play match of '99. Was a ripper.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Interesting. Against Australia Dhoni only batted at 4 three times and all three times India had over 150 on the board.

Batting 5 was a mix of coming in at 3-100 and 3-250. Made his ton coming in at 3-97 and his half ton coming in at 3-53.

Batting 6 his half centuries came at 4-87, 4-64, and 4-108. His century came at 4-74. For a #6 to make a significant contribution you would expect that there had been a bit of a collapse though.

As far as I can tell he never did too much of significance against McGrath, though he retired early in his career. Both of his tons though were against Johnson who was a very good ODI quick.

Overall Dhoni averaged 41 vs Australia and 35 against Australia in Australia which are both very good numbers but are way below his overall record.

Interestingly both of his tons were in games where India lost the toss and were sent in to bat.

He's played Australia 4 times in big tournaments - twice in the world cup and twice in the champion's trophy. He made scores of 7, 65 and 28. He did not bat the other time. I'm not sure too much can be made of those numbers.

Was he really though?

Shame you missed watching the NZ/Aust pool play match of '99. Was a ripper.

2003 was a great game. Shane Bond had Australia 7-84 and still NZ managed to lose by 100 runs.

2007 Aus v NZ was a bit boring, but it saw Michael Clarke inexplicably leave a ball on middle stump

Don't know if they played in 2011? The less said about 2015 the better . . .

 

[vcs]

For someone with as remarkable of a record as Dhoni I find it very difficult to recall any of his actual innings. I think that has more to do with the way he went about his business than anything else. Or it could be the "protecting his average" thing meaning he hid when the going got tough.

These were some of his best knocks (apart from the WC final of course), all coming in very tough situations.

1st ODI, Pakistan tour of India at Chennai, Dec 30 2012 | Match Summary | ESPNCricinfo

Final, West Indies Tri-Nation Series at Port of Spain, Jul 11 2013 | Match Summary | ESPNCricinfo

3rd ODI (D/N), Australia tour of India at Chandigarh, Oct 19 2013 | Match Summary | ESPNCricinfo

I think 2013 was Dhoni's last great year as an ODI batsman, despite his renaissance last year. He played some amazing knocks then.

Was he really though?

In that 2013 series, he absolutely was, inspite of bowling on absolute roads. Made Yuvraj and Raina look like absolute chumps with some of his short pitched bowling, however, Kohli played him very well. Then of course he went on to destroy England in the summer..

 

[sunilz]

Was he really though?

Yes he was. He won Australia the decider game of ODI series in 2007 as well as 2009 in India

5th ODI, Australia tour of India at Vadodara, Oct 11 2007 | Match Summary | ESPNCricinfo

6th ODI, Australia tour of India at Guwahati, Nov 8 2009 | Match Summary | ESPNCricinfo

Johnson would easily be in top 3 ODI pacer in Asian condition in last 10 years

 

[sunilz]

He's played Australia 4 times in big tournaments - twice in the world cup and twice in the champion's trophy. He made scores of 7, 65 and 28. He did not bat the other time. I'm not sure too much can be made of those numbers.

This means players like Dhoni and Bevan shouldn't be compared to top order batsman like Kohli or Ponting. Their roles are different.
And Gilchrist is as good ODI batsman as Dhoni despite the difference in their batting average. So if one picks either Dhoni or Gilchrist in ODI XI then there shouldn't be any problem.

 

[OverratedSanity]

In that 2013 series, he absolutely was, inspite of bowling on absolute roads. Made Yuvraj and Raina look like absolute chumps with some of his short pitched bowling, however, Kohli played him very well. Then of course he went on to destroy England in the summer..

Great accomplishment, that

But yeah that series in India in 2013 was where some people started noticing that Johnson was consistently troubling batsmen with his pace and looked very dangerous. IIRC he had some great spells in the ipl. Think an Indian CW poster at the time (maybe Cricaddict ) was convinced he had turned the corner and should be picked for the Ashes and got laughed at by most people here. One of the better calls I've seen from a CWer.

 

[vcs]

Great accomplishment, that

But yeah that series in India in 2013 was where some people started noticing that Johnson was consistently troubling batsmen with his pace and looked very dangerous. IIRC he had some great spells in the ipl. Think an Indian CW poster at the time (maybe Cricaddict ) was convinced he had turned the corner and should be picked for the Ashes and got laughed at by most people here. One of the better calls I've seen from a CWer.

Yeah, but those pitches were really complete flatbeds. To look threatening on those, even for brief spells against the likes of Raina/Yuvi was impressive. No other bowler from either side managed it.

I think Sachin also predicted that Johnson would do really well in the return Ashes, based on his IPL performances and that ODI series.

 

[Dan]

Great accomplishment, that

But yeah that series in India in 2013 was where some people started noticing that Johnson was consistently troubling batsmen with his pace and looked very dangerous. IIRC he had some great spells in the ipl. Think an Indian CW poster at the time (maybe Cricaddict ) was convinced he had turned the corner and should be picked for the Ashes and got laughed at by most people here. One of the better calls I've seen from a CWer.

Periodic reminder that I advocated for Luke Butterworth (defensible tbf, what a hero) and Ben Cutting (holy **** dan of the past you absolute spud), amongst others, ahead of Johnson in that series.

Hilfgate 2.0

 

[Starfighter]

For some reason earlier today I was thinking about the period of Luke Butterworth advocacy that seemed to be common enough in 2012 or so. Funny times.

 

[stephen]

This means players like Dhoni and Bevan shouldn't be compared to top order batsman like Kohli or Ponting. Their roles are different.
And Gilchrist is as good ODI batsman as Dhoni despite the difference in their batting average. So if one picks either Dhoni or Gilchrist in ODI XI then there shouldn't be any problem.

Interestingly, the three best chasers of all time - Bevan, Dhoni and Hussey all have world cup records well below their regular averages. All three have been involved in World Cup wins too.

 

[akilana]

Interestingly, the three best chasers of all time - Bevan, Dhoni and Hussey all have world cup records well below their regular averages. All three have been involved in World Cup wins too.

Dhoni was terrible outside of Asia. Hussey was a better finisher than a chaser.

 

[Bolo]

Difficult to look past Kohli as best chaser. WC criticisms still apply to him.

 

[sunilz]

ICC ODI cricketer of the year

Dhoni =2
Hussey=1

ICC ODI Team of the year

Dhoni=7
Hussey=2

New definition of terrible

 

[Niall]

Difficult to look past Kohli as best chaser. WC criticisms still apply to him.

Good point. I think Kohli gets cut some slack because he has bossed it in the last few t20 world cups .

2nd Semi-Final (N), World T20 at Dhaka, Apr 4 2014 | Match Summary | ESPNCricinfo

Beast knock in the 2014 world cup semi final to win the game. He did fine in the final also, but was let down by an all time horror knock by Yuvi at the other end.

He also was good in the last world cup, he bossed Australia in a virtual quarter final (MOTM) and knocked 82 at a strike rate of 190 in the semi final they lost against West Indies. He also took a wicket when bowling. He was let down by a horror innings by Rahane, in both losses he excelled and obviously they would not have got to those stages without his heroics.

He hasn't really done it in ODI world cups and champions trophies to be fair.

 

[srbhkshk]

He hasn't really done it in ODI world cups and champions trophies to be fair.

He's bossed the CTs except for that nightmare game, averages 88.

 

[Niall]

He's bossed the CTs except for that nightmare game, averages 88.

Huh for some reason I thought he under performed there, should have done some research.

 

[smash84]

He's bossed the CTs except for that nightmare game, averages 88.

you mean the last final?

 

[OverratedSanity]

Kohli's been pretty great in the CT. Was the best batsman in the knockout stages in 2013. Whether the CT actually matters is another debate altogether.

 

[pdsubbu]

Amla is no ABD kind of player.

He relies on bookish shots and nothing much fancy.

A quality player though.