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Harbhajan reignites racism storm

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
Symonds was one of the few that emerged with any credit.

Like him or hate him, at least he was honest the whole way through

Test cricket is not a friendly sport - Harby did not simply pat Brett Lee and say "well bowled", you can absolutely guarantee that

The judge's response was that of a person living in pixie-land
Oh come on, its not that hard to believe.

And no its nothing out of the ordinary. And why did Symonds go on about how cricket isn't a friendly sport, rather than just simply say "Hey, Harbhajan was being a smartarse, so I sprayed him."

If Brett Lee can pat Tendulkar on the head, its not that hard to believe that Harbhajan tapped Lee on the butt. Firstly, I reckon Lee would be pretty familiar with the Indian team, and secondly... its seen all the time.
 

Engle

State Vice-Captain
Just to clarify again. My position is.

1) There is no place for racism in society & there is no place for sledging in sport.
2) Everyones opinion on what is racist is not the same, a coloured person opinion is more valid(but I am open to any good argument that convinces me otherwise)
3) To include 'monkey' as a slur lowers the bar on what is a racial slur and the final legislation will not be worth the paper written on as it will not be properly enforcable(pretty much like most of the RIAA laws on music sharing)
4) Harbhajan is an idiot.


What else have I missed??
2) If you accept that a colored persons opinion is more valid than a non-colored, then are you willing to accept a black persons (victim) opinion over a non-black (perpetrator) ?

3) If you accept that ' monkey ' slur lowers the bar, then is it Ok from now on for other opposition cricketers to call Symonds that ?
 

jeevan

International 12th Man
Judge Hansen has done his job and thankfully explained what evidence he got and what conclusions he drew:

http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/ausvind/content/current/story/334196.html

For me, the significant ones are:
- Tendulkar went out on a limb to corborrate Harbhajan's version (which was key for me, in that this was hardly an open and shut case). It transpires that Proctor had discarded it entirely.
- Apparently there was not a consistency between the Australian players recollection of the events. What this report states is major difference.
- Apparently Symonds cannot say for sure if Harbhajan said "teri maan ki", whilie "maan ki" and "monkey" have different syllables to emphasize - "teri" is a two syllable word.
 

jeevan

International 12th Man
Symonds was one of the few that emerged with any credit.

Like him or hate him, at least he was honest the whole way through

Test cricket is not a friendly sport - Harby did not simply pat Brett Lee and say "well bowled", you can absolutely guarantee that
Actually, if I was a Joe Sixpack member of the same race as him, I would greatly dislike the fact that he went on record saying that it is OK for his team mates to call him a monkey - not having the shields of money and fame that he does. (classifies as what is described as 'coconut' behavior).
 

Anil

Hall of Fame Member
symonds was a prick, harb was an even bigger prick in return...that story about harb "hitting" lee and symonds jumping in to defend his mate is such utter hogwash...i don't think even harb is stupid enough to hit a tall, powerful fast bowler...he might have tapped him on the back and possibly said something...and i can understand symond's interference if lee had reacted angrily or something, but this "story" of coming to his "aid" unbidden is such rubbish...harb was batting quite confidently at that point and symonds was very likely looking for the least excuse to sledge him, upset his concentration, whatever...
 

BoyBrumby

Englishman
symonds was a prick, harb was an even bigger prick in return...that story about harb "hitting" lee and symonds jumping in to defend his mate is such utter hogwash...i don't think even harb is stupid enough to hit a tall, powerful fast bowler...he might have tapped him on the back and possibly said something...and i can understand symond's interference if lee had reacted angrily or something, but this "story" of coming to his "aid" unbidden is such rubbish...harb was batting quite confidently at that point and symonds was very likely looking for the least excuse to sledge him, upset his concentration, whatever...
Pretty much inclined to agree. Neither plaintiff nor defendant comes out of the whole sorry shebang looking too clever. Ditto their respective boards & the ICC.

Fair play to Mr Justice Hansen though, at least someone emerges with credit. He delivered an eminently sensible decision based on the extant evidence.
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
Actually, if I was a Joe Sixpack member of the same race as him, I would greatly dislike the fact that he went on record saying that it is OK for his team mates to call him a monkey - not having the shields of money and fame that he does. (classifies as what is described as 'coconut' behavior).
I agree here. It showed that racism wasn't even on the agenda here, and it was more a personal dispute between Symonds and Harbhajan, and frustration.

That doesn't justify what Harbhajan said (if he said it), but Hayden's overreaction suggested it was a passionate issue, when it clearly comes down to the fact that the Australians dont like Harbhajan.
 

Burgey

Request Your Custom Title Now!
The way he appeals for catches, I don't think anyone should ever really trust him anymore. He is just as bad as Dhoni in that respect....


And yes, it is very fishy that he says he never heard anything that Symonds said but only the things that Bhajji said.


Anyways, there never really was any evidence to convict Bhajji of racism and that is exactly what has transpired. Juz don't understand what the big fuss is from the Aussies about it. The same Aussies who now say that the players' words has to carry weight never gave it much thought when Gayle told that Clarke incited him in the CT in 2006... Funny how things change when it is not the person from your camp.....
I think you're right mate: it's not the decision but the way all the outside stuff was going on which leaves a pretty bitter taste. I thought all along that it was pretty surprising he was ever found guilty int he first place, but the ends cannot always justify the means.

take it easy with the hypocrites there... Kumble hasn't appealed for bump ball catches yet......



And yes, the Aussies aren't much better either. There is no need to mention what India have or have not done in the sport, we still are the oxygen for the bloody sport, so go and spout out your nonsense about India not doing well somewhere else.


You talk about it as though racism is foreign in Australia... Quite funny that it should be said because believe me, it is a lot more foreign in India than it is in Australia. And last of all, where the hell is the bloody proof that Bhajji did say something racist? Give that and we will have something to talk about... Of course, Indians would be offended when they branded something they were not... Didn't Smith react like hell when he was termed to have said something "racist"? It is a sensitive issue and people don't like to branded as so and so when it comes to such issues. The Indians were hurt because Bhajji says he didn't say it (and his word is as acceptable to me as Hayden's, Symonds' and Clarke's and Ponting's are) and the Indians see that there is no evidence to suggest otherwise and yet he is penalized. So they say that if the hearing continues in what they believe to be a biased manner, they will walk out... Why can't they do that? Because few Aussies can't accept that they could be wrong?????????
My calling Kumble a hypocrite mate, scame from his banging on about the spirit of thgame, when about 4 weeks ealrier he's verbally abusing Yousuf on the field in India.
My comments about how India have gone and their reactions to things ring true to me. And I accept the Aussies aren't a lot better - there aren't any (or at least many) angels out there, which is a shame of course. I can't recall the last time CA demanded an umpire be withdrawn from a series though, or threatened to cancel a tour unless a discipinary hearing went their way.
Just because a hearing goes against you doesn't mean it was biased!! That's the whole point of it. You might say it was wrong, you might say it should have been overturned (and it probably should have) but it's different to say say it was biased - that there was a predisposition to find against HBS on the part of Proctor is different to saying he got it wrong.
The fuss isn't really that he got off, which imo is fair enough. The fuss is that the proceedings seem to have been hijacked and held to ransom.
That's my point in this, though I asmit I haven't put it across as clearly as I ought to have.

Pretty much shows why emotions in front of logic always results in rubbish. And some of that **** is downright disgraceful.

And Burgey, will all due respect, you've been shown to be pretty damn biased with your views all tour, so nothing too new here.

As far as I'm concerned, both parties are at fault here, BCCI and CA. And going further, the Australian cricket team, and the Indian team.

No surprise there. Wouldn't expect anything more from one of the most biased people on this forum. But its good to see whose opinions I can take with a pinch of salt when it comes to international cricket affairs nowadays.

Love how the true views and bias come out eventually. Its always interesting.

And in the mean time, my (and many other people I assume) opinion of Michael Clarke just fell further. I used to have so much respect for this player two years ago as well.
Jono, you were the bloke I was referring to in my earlier post as saying you "hated" Ponting. :)
Certainly agree both parties were at fault, and Symonds carried on like a pork chop to get the whole thing started, and his comments in the hearing wer edire to say the least.

But I'm still pretty damn annoyed that one country, any country, can see fit to hold a tour to ransom because a hearing doesn't go their way. I just think it's wrong. And it takes the sport to a place where it really ought not go, imo.

Why did Symonds take offense to Harby patting Lee on the back?
I know he hates the guy but c'mon. I'm not blaming the alleged victim either but sheesh, lighten up.
I don't think he's the sharpest tool in the shed, to put it mildly.

He said a Test is not a time to be friendly and congratulate your opponent on a delivery well bowled, apparently. My worst bloke ever sig continues to be vindicated.

Though, Harbhajan has now moved into 1st place with the lowest IQ to talent ratio, well ahead of Sreesanth.
Think you're right on both counts. What Symonds said in that transcript about friendliness was as weird as it was inappropriate. Was it Norman Yardley who was godfather to one of Don Bradman's children? Hell of a come down since then, isn't it?
 

Salamuddin

International Debutant
I think parking a Boeing 737 on the tarmac of the closest major airport, and bringing your ODI players from another city to be close to that aircraft so they can hop on it in the event that the indepepndent appeal hearing finds aginst you probably consitutes arm twisting. In fact, it probably constitutes bamboo under the fingernails.

Maybe they were intedning to go home, maybe not....there is no way you or I or any one else can know with any certainity what the BCCI was planning in that event.

In any case, such speculation is utterly immaterial. You're saying that the mere threat of the a BCCI pullout caused the charge of racism to be dropped.
Look athe evidence man:
1) Symonds is even unsure what Harbhajan said....at least if you're gonna accuse someone of racism be crystal clear about what they said.
2) Clarke's evidence appears out of synch with the rest of the Aussies.
3) So its effectively Tendulkar's word v Hayden's.

There is no way Harbhajan could have been found guilty of the charge in an impartial court.
End of !!! You can cry as much as you like about what you think the BCCI may have done but there ain't no case.
 

Burgey

Request Your Custom Title Now!
I agree here. It showed that racism wasn't even on the agenda here, and it was more a personal dispute between Symonds and Harbhajan, and frustration.

That doesn't justify what Harbhajan said (if he said it), but Hayden's overreaction suggested it was a passionate issue, when it clearly comes down to the fact that the Australians dont like Harbhajan.
Think that's right too - the history between them must have got Symonds steamed up. If someone else had done it, he probably (but who knows with a hot head like him?) wouldn't have said anything.
 

Burgey

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Maybe they were intedning to go home, maybe not....there is no way you or I or any one else can know with any certainity what the BCCI was planning in that event.

In any case, such speculation is utterly immaterial. You're saying that the mere threat of the a BCCI pullout caused the charge of racism to be dropped.
Look athe evidence man:
1) Symonds is even unsure what Harbhajan said....at least if you're gonna accuse someone of racism be crystal clear about what they said.
2) Clarke's evidence appears out of synch with the rest of the Aussies.
3) So its effectively Tendulkar's word v Hayden's.

There is no way Harbhajan could have been found guilty of the charge in an impartial court.
End of !!! You can cry as much as you like about what you think the BCCI may have done but there ain't no case.
Mate, I was happy for him to get off the charge - it was weird he got convicted in the first place.
But I just don't reckon the end always justifies the means, especially when the system that was set up to hear it was sanctioned by all the countries in the ICC. The BCCI said it would take it's players home if he got convicted. IMO the process just should have run its course - both sides of the dispute didn't help in that regard.
I'm not saying that's what caused it get dropped because the judge went through it all (and good on him coz it helped clear the air a lot). That sort of stuff about going home doesn't help things though.
 

BoyBrumby

Englishman
Maybe they were intedning to go home, maybe not....there is no way you or I or any one else can know with any certainity what the BCCI was planning in that event.
Sorry, but that's just crap. It's akin to holding a gun to someone's head and saying maybe they intended to pull the trigger & maybe not. If the gun isn't there there's no implied threat; the same applies to the 737.
 

howardj

International Coach
Anybody seeing the casual attire and sunglasses sported by the Australian captain, Ricky Ponting, and players Andrew Symonds and Michael Clarke before the New Zealand High Court judge John Hansen as he considered racial slur allegations on Tuesday may have been reminded of the Canterbury Bulldogs' gormless insensitivity four years ago arriving for police interviews about an alleged rape wearing shorts and thongs.

Fair dinkum, if you were showing up in the Federal Court, is it too much to ask to wear a suit or at least proper pants and a long sleeve shirt. They looked like a rabble, the Aussie boys. There seems to be this macho, rebellious streak in some of them.
 

Salamuddin

International Debutant
Sorry, but that's just crap. It's akin to holding a gun to someone's head and saying maybe they intended to pull the trigger & maybe not. If the gun isn't there there's no implied threat; the same applies to the 737.

Extremely poor analogy....Didn't the Indian team bus stay at Sydney in the aftermath of the Sydney test when it was supposed to go to Canberra ? Everyone then expected an Indian pullout but it didn't transpire......

It is impossible to speculate what the BCCI was going to do if the charge was upheld.
 

BoyBrumby

Englishman
Extremely poor analogy....Didn't the Indian team bus stay at Sydney in the aftermath of the Sydney test when it was supposed to go to Canberra ? Everyone then expected an Indian pullout but it didn't transpire......

It is impossible to speculate what the BCCI was going to do if the charge was upheld.
Of course it isn't; there have been literally hundreds of column inches devoted to just that. Moreover you may well contend India's purpose for the 737 was entirely benign (I'd like you to try to speculate what it may have been chartered for tho), but the fact is that CA took the implied threat very seriously indeed, which means the BCCI had achieved the desired effect.
 

Burgey

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Anybody seeing the casual attire and sunglasses sported by the Australian captain, Ricky Ponting, and players Andrew Symonds and Michael Clarke before the New Zealand High Court judge John Hansen as he considered racial slur allegations on Tuesday may have been reminded of the Canterbury Bulldogs' gormless insensitivity four years ago arriving for police interviews about an alleged rape wearing shorts and thongs.

Fair dinkum, if you were showing up in the Federal Court, is it too much to ask to wear a suit or at least proper pants and a long sleeve shirt. They looked like a rabble, the Aussie boys. There seems to be this macho, rebellious streak in some of them.
Was pretty poor, wasn't it? Saw that photo and they're all sitting there like they're waiting for dinner at an RSL club.
 

sideshowtim

Banned
Anybody seeing the casual attire and sunglasses sported by the Australian captain, Ricky Ponting, and players Andrew Symonds and Michael Clarke before the New Zealand High Court judge John Hansen as he considered racial slur allegations on Tuesday may have been reminded of the Canterbury Bulldogs' gormless insensitivity four years ago arriving for police interviews about an alleged rape wearing shorts and thongs.

Fair dinkum, if you were showing up in the Federal Court, is it too much to ask to wear a suit or at least proper pants and a long sleeve shirt. They looked like a rabble, the Aussie boys. There seems to be this macho, rebellious streak in some of them.
You're not going to attack Harbajhan, who turned up in the Indian team shirt, just as Ponting did with his Australian one?

Give me a break. That's such a minor point that it's ridiculous.
 

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