Group D: Uruguay, Costa Rica, England, Italy

[GIMH]

The frustrating thing is in both games we had enough chances to get at least a point.

**** it. Will cling on desperately, surely Italy will win tomorrow and leave us to linger for a while but how depressing.

 

[Teja.]

Definitely not imo.

His incredible charisma adds points IMO.

 

[Agent Nationaux]

They should change the rules so keepers can handle the ball in both boxes. Would be such a gun rule.

Are you Loko in disguise?

 

[Tom Halsey]

Well all I know about soccer is guardian ranking of the top 100 players in December 2013 that I flipped throgh prior to th WC, and Suarez was #9 but I guess that's a bit old. They also had Messi above Ronaldo which was a surprise to me since I thought it was relatively universally thought Ronaldo was better (not trying to get into a Sachin vs Lara debate here - I have never seen either of hem play except in WCs)...

Actually it was probably the reverse until this season. I didn't come across many non-United fans (or Real Madrid fans I suppose, but I don't know any) who thought Ronaldo was better than Messi until about a year ago maybe. Ronaldo has been better for the past year or so by general consensus though, so it's how you weigh up recent performances against credit in the bank. There is no clear consensus now on who is better though really, IMO.

 

[grecian]

Anyway to explain that so a five year old can understand it? Wiki tells me they all play as forward.

Well it's a bit of a matter of opinion and old-school football, they just play deeper (further back in play) then what you would expect a striker to play, like Maradonna he wasn't considered a striker, but it's a technicality really.

Whilst Suarez is a typical poacher always looking for chances, and playing on the edge of defenders so an old-fashioned striker. Yet as I say it's old-fashioned, everything is so much more fluid in modern football.

 

[Nate]

Yes Luis. <3 Send the bulk of the boys back home early.

 

[Ikki]

England are lucky that Italy have an incentive to beat Costa Rica, but they might take it easier against Uruguay as a draw will be enough for them. Then again Uruguay won't want to rest on a draw in case Costa Rica gets a draw or better against England so it might leave them a bit vulnerable.

Really interesting dynamic.

 

[wpdavid]

Gerrard's header unfortunately went to Suarez, but he had to challenge for it. Unfortunately, Cahill stepped up thinking Cavani would win it instead of getting goal side of Suarez.

Which really wasn't very smart of Cahill at all: a 50/50 heading contest doesn't strike me as the time to gamble on playing one of the best strikers on the planet off side.
Well done Gazza. two of the biggest games you'll ever play and both time you've given away the losing goal by not bothering to mark their centre forward. Following Jagielka's dereliction of duty for the first goal of course.

Yes Suarez took them sublimely, especially the second one, but proper defenders simply won't give him that sort of space.

Beyond that, we were just horrible. Most of the time, the passing in the final third was nothing short of diabolical. Sturridge, Sterling and Welbeck all looked horribly lightweight. Rooney wasn't great, but he was better than most of them. Just dire, and completely shown up by a bunch of professionals who have bothered to master their trade. And how we were still even in the game after our shambolic start to the 2nd half is anyone's guess.

Let's hope results don't conspire to get us through the group stage. .

 

[Pothas]

England are lucky that Italy have an incentive to beat Costa Rica, but they might take it easier against Uruguay as a draw will be enough for them. Then again Uruguay won't want to rest on a draw in case Costa Rica gets a draw or better against England so it might leave them a bit vulnerable.

Really interesting dynamic.

Yeah there is no way that it would be 'miracle' as some are now doubt going to call it.

 

[GIMH]

Italy will want top spot I guess which is an incentive for them to not lose at least. I don't think it's absurd to predict we will go through but I wouldn't put money on it.

 

[grecian]

TBH I'm not that disappointed, I was wrong our defenders weren't good enough and the youngsters aren't good enough to step up yet, but next WC who knows?

It's all very well saying we had the chances, but so did the oppo we defended hideously and should have been 3-0 down after 50 minutes, so meh.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

I'd rather we go out, get through and Colombia will tear us a new one.

 

[Ikki]

Which really wasn't very smart of Cahill at all: a 50/50 heading contest doesn't strike me as the time to gamble on playing one of the best strikers on the planet off side.
Well done Gazza. two of the biggest games you'll ever play and both time you've given away the losing goal by not bothering to mark their centre forward. Following Jagielka's dereliction of duty for the first goal of course.

Yes Suarez took them sublimely, especially the second one, but proper defenders simply won't give him that sort of space.

Beyond that, we were just horrible. Most of the time, the passing in the final third was nothing short of diabolical. Sturridge, Sterling and Welbeck all looked horribly lightweight. Rooney wasn't great, but he was better than most of them. Just dire, and completely shown up by a bunch of professionals who have bothered to master their trade. And how we were still even in the game after our shambolic start to the 2nd half is anyone's guess.

Let's hope results don't conspire to get us through the group stage. .

I agree with you. Cahill was culpable but on the replay I just saw I'd have to give a lot of blame to Jags as well. He was nowhere near Suarez and the offside trap point doesn't work for him at all. Just sleepy defending.

I think where Hodgson got it wrong was playing a 2-1 in midfield instead of a 1-2 as we play at Liverpool. Gerrard holds and Henderson gets forward and back enough anyway. We've played a 2-1 before and Gerrard plays much better when he is by himself. It is also easier to counter the opposition's strategy if they try to man-mark him because all he does is move and drag his man to the side while Henderson drops. That movement at least creates space whereas when they're both sitting there it's kind of static.

 

[wpdavid]

Italy will want top spot I guess which is an incentive for them to not lose at least. I don't think it's absurd to predict we will go through but I wouldn't put money on it.

Italy and Uruguay will both get what they want with a draw won't they? Although that presumes that England will beat Costa Rica, I suppose.
Sounds like a cast iron certainty for 0-0 imo.

Watching tonight's game, I have absolutely no idea how Uruguay lost to Costa Rica though. They were so superior to us it was simply embarrassing.

 

[wpdavid]

I agree with you. Cahill was culpable but on the replay I just saw I'd have to give a lot of blame to Jags as well. He was nowhere near Suarez and the offside trap point doesn't work for him at all. Just sleepy defending.

I think where Hodgson got it wrong was playing a 2-1 in midfield instead of a 1-2 as we play at Liverpool. Gerrard holds and Henderson gets forward and back enough anyway. We've played a 2-1 before and Gerrard plays much better when he is by himself. It is also easier to counter the opposition's strategy if they try to man-mark him because all he does is move and drag his man to the side while Henderson drops. That movement at least creates space whereas when they're both sitting there it's kind of static.

Beyond which I thought we were simply outnumbered in midfield until our replacements came on.

 

[Ikki]

TBH I'm not that disappointed, I was wrong our defenders weren't good enough and the youngsters aren't good enough to step up yet, but next WC who knows?

It's all very well saying we had the chances, but so did the oppo we defended hideously and should have been 3-0 down after 50 minutes, so meh.

I know we disagree on this and I don't mean to bring it up after the fact to score points, but this is why I really thought Cole should have gone. In the games under Hodgson featuring the same backline + Cole he had routinely covered up and sweeped for the two CBs who often go sleeping. Even with the great defensive record, it regularly appeared more like last-ditch defending than anything resembling a systematic and tactical plan. The '12 Euros are the best example.

 

[wpdavid]

I know we disagree on this and I don't mean to bring it up after the fact to score points, but this is why I really thought Cole should have gone. In the games under Hodgson featuring the same backline + Cole he had routinely covered up and sweeped for the two CBs who often go sleeping. Even with the great defensive record, it regularly appeared more like last-ditch defending than anything resembling a systematic and tactical plan. The '12 Euros are the best example.

Difficult to start with Cole after the season he's had at club level. But yes, He would have improved the defence. Certainly wouldn't have given the Italian so much time to cross for Balotelli's header. Whether he'd have got across to cover Jagielka for the first goal tonight is more debateable. And I don't think he'd have had a prayer for the 2nd one tonight.

 

[Burgey]

TBH I'm not that disappointed, I was wrong our defenders weren't good enough and the youngsters aren't good enough to step up yet, but next WC who knows?

It's all very well saying we had the chances, but so did the oppo we defended hideously and should have been 3-0 down after 50 minutes, so meh.

Presumably the majority of these younger blokes will likely be the nucleus of the Euro squad, so from that POV you'd hope they will be better for the experience and kick on.

If England goes out, will Roy keep his job? And who's a likely replacement?

 

[silentstriker]

Well it's a bit of a matter of opinion and old-school football, they just play deeper (further back in play) then what you would expect a striker to play, like Maradonna he wasn't considered a striker, but it's a technicality really.

Whilst Suarez is a typical poacher always looking for chances, and playing on the edge of defenders so an old-fashioned striker. Yet as I say it's old-fashioned, everything is so much more fluid in modern football.

So does that mean their game/positions means they'll have more assists rather than more scores themselves?

 

[Ikki]

As for Rooney, it's scary how much confidence can impact a player. Scores a goal and looks a different player for the rest of the match. Oh England, just like Liverpool, a draw was enough! This season has been bad for my heart.