Group C - England, United States, Algeria, Slovenia

[GIMH]

Beckham hasn't been a regular started since the last WC, and we did okay in qualifying

 

[LongHopCassidy]

He was nursing niggles all the while though, right?

Was he in the 5-0 Croatia game?

 

[BoyBrumby]

Beckham hasn't been a regular started since the last WC, and we did okay in qualifying

Tactics were essentially "give it to the tubby pikey and hope the defence ****s up infrequently" tho. Don't work when Rooney's playing like a drain.

 

[GIMH]

Nah, he was dropped by McClaren, then brought back, and then used mainly as an impact sub by Capello

Don't remember him playing the Croatia game, never watched it live as I think it was on Setanta which I don't have

 

[Uppercut]

Out of interest, do people think England weren't trying hard enough last night?

 

[Neil Pickup]

Out of interest, do people think England weren't trying hard enough last night?

It looked like an England rugby performance at any point over the last twelve months up until this morning: utterly unimaginative and free of any ideas or creative spark: no one looked like they had sufficient balls to take the risk to make something happen, because it might go wrong. Therefore nothing at all happened.

I repeat the analogy of a ten year old who is so scared of getting out that he won't lift his bat beyond his kneecap and consequently gets caught at short cover for 2 off 28 balls.

Freedom needs to come from somewhere... it happened for the rugby team with Youngs, Ashton and Foden this morning, it happens for ten-year-olds when they come in with two overs to go and you tell them you'd rather see them get bowled than play a defensive shot... but Capello is paid shedloads to know how to find it, and it's time that he did.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Out of interest, do people think England weren't trying hard enough last night?

Think we were afflicted with a slight lethargy early on, but it was more a technical failure rather than a lack of effort.

Shame, really, because the latter is a lot easier to fix.

 

[Uppercut]

It looked like an England rugby performance at any point over the last twelve months up until this morning: utterly unimaginative and free of any ideas or creative spark: no one looked like they had sufficient balls to take the risk to make something happen, because it might go wrong. Therefore nothing at all happened.

I repeat the analogy of a ten year old who is so scared of getting out that he won't lift his bat beyond his kneecap and consequently gets caught at short cover for 2 off 28 balls.

Freedom needs to come from somewhere... it happened for the rugby team with Youngs, Ashton and Foden this morning, it happens for ten-year-olds when they come in with two overs to go and you tell them you'd rather see them get bowled than play a defensive shot... but Capello is paid shedloads to know how to find it, and it's time that he did.

Completely agree. Applies even more perfectly to their LO sides until very recently too.

 

[Uppercut]

Think we were afflicted with a slight lethargy early on, but it was more a technical failure rather than a lack of effort.

Shame, really, because the latter is a lot easier to fix.

English players in general do have a distinctly poor first touch, even in comparison with the Algerians. I don't think it's a flaw that's destined to render any England side incapable of winning the World Cup, but it can't help.

 

[Neil Pickup]

Completely agree. Applies even more perfectly to their LO sides until very recently too.

c.f. Ian Bell

Stuart Barnes summed things up very well on Sky this morning during the rugby with a description of the way Foden was playing: something along the lines of "he's making decisions instinctively, not thinking about a game plan, not thinking whether he should kick or pass or run, but making decisions naturally, quickly and with confidence, and backing those decisions - and as a result, these decisions often come out to be correct."

 

[BoyBrumby]

English players in general do have a distinctly poor first touch, even in comparison with the Algerians. I don't think it's a flaw that's destined to render any England side incapable of winning the World Cup, but it can't help.

In general I agree, other nations' (except perhaps the Anglophone countries) technical skills put ours to shame. However, even someone like Rooney, whose first touch is usually never less than decent, was struggling last night.

 

[Uppercut]

In general I agree, other nations' (except perhaps the Anglophone countries) technical skills put ours to shame. However, even someone like Rooney, whose first touch is usually never less than decent, was struggling last night.

True. Rooney just had a bad game I'd say. Happens to everyone.

We got a lot of laughs out of Emile Heskey's first touch last night. At one stage the ball was passed to him inside his own half- just a basic pass, bouncing just off the ground- he stood perfectly still and allowed the ball to bounce off his shin and ten yards away. I wonder what it is about the English system that allows players to reach the top level without ever obtaining any semblance of competence at such a basic skill.

 

[Ikki]

Out of interest, do people think England weren't trying hard enough last night?

I think they were trying, of course they were. But I think people underestimate the psychological effects on the performances of players. Guys like Gerrard were missing two yard passes and Rooney couldn't trap a ball cleanly to save his life. Every minute gone was another one to worry about. If I were the English team I'd simply stop caring what the general public think and just win it to spite them even. As a neutral who has followed the English team because some Liverpool players have been in it, I don't know of a more ignorant or fickle fan base.

 

[GIMH]

Must have missed all the fans of a certain un-named nation that have declared that 'soccer is stupid' and such like after things haven't gone their way

 

[silentstriker]

Must have missed all the fans of a certain un-named nation that have declared that 'soccer is stupid' and such like after things haven't gone their way

Ignorant, yes. Fickle, no. I don't know anything about the game, and my interest in soccer may be fickle, but my support of the US team isn't.

 

[sledger]

To this armchair bandwagon fan I think England's dependence on Beckham's crossing has been more than a little exposed. They're backing Gerrard's passing nous to create chances in the centre and the sweepers have let him down, and badly. Even Algeria managed to pick this up and crowd the attacking midfielders accordingly.

Also, Defoe should start. Heskey's latest effort was diabolical, even if he earned his spot after the US match. Doesn't really matter if he's there to create chances and not score goals - if Rooney won't, then someone has to.

I would actually agree with this to some extent. In the last world cup England were pretty dreadful but were pulled through most of the group stage games and the first knock out round by Beckham. They may have gone alright in qualifying campaigns since then, but the opposition for large chunks of that has hardly been stellar. There is obviously more to England's poor performance than this factor, but it's true to say that the teams set pieces and crossing and in fact passing in general has been incredibly poor at times, and I'd suggest it would have been much improved if he had been in the side.

 

[Matteh]

With Beckham in the side you always felt England stood a huge chance of scoring from a corner or a free kick. The amount of times Gerrard in particular and also Lampard fired corners into the first man is criminal.

 

[Uppercut]

I would actually agree with this to some extent. In the last world cup England were pretty dreadful but were pulled through most of the group stage games and the first knock out round by Beckham. They may have gone alright in qualifying campaigns since then, but the opposition for large chunks of that has hardly been stellar. There is obviously more to England's poor performance than this factor, but it's true to say that the teams set pieces and crossing and in fact passing in general has been incredibly poor at times, and I'd suggest it would have been much improved if he had been in the side.

Beckham got fired as captain and dropped after that tournament too.

 

[sledger]

He actually resigned as captain iirc. And was only dropped due to a pathetic attempt at clearing out the cobwebs by a horribly underqualified joke of a manager, was actually thinking to myself the other day about what a stupid attempt at getting the media onside that was. Stupid Steve McClaren. I remember speaking to Halsey at half time of the England match against Croatia at Wembley in which they only needed to avoid defeat to qualify and said "if England get anything from this game, it will come through Beckham", and low and behold, on he came, and set up a goal. Obviously due to the ineptitude of the team on a whole this was not enough. But however, shows the impact he always had. I'm not Beckham's biggest fan, nor do I think he was a particularly great player. But he lead from the front, and always gave the appearance that he really cared about playing for England and put in 100%, which is more than can be said of a lot of those who now make up the team.

 

[jack_sparrow]

The England team visited an orphanage in Cape Town today. "It's heartbreaking to see their sad little faces with no hope" said Jamal aged 6.