Jono
Virat Kohli (c)
i.e. SilentStriker
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Group C - England, United States, Algeria, Slovenia
- Thread starter James
- Start date
BoyBrumby
Englishman
You're talking as if the crowd booed from the first whistle; it didn't really kick in until the last ten minutes or so.
Moreover the players should harden the eff up; the relationship with the supporters is symbiotic, if they don't give something back it's inevitable the crowd will voice its frustrations.
Uppercut
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Missing the point though. I'm not trying to defend Rooney's whining or England's prank-performance, I'm just saying that the fans who booed their side off are **** supporters. If you know an action is going to harm your team's chances of success, and you do it anyway, you're a crap supporter. That's all there is to it.
Matteh
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Doesn't stop the press putting the knife in after every game.
Supporters do have the right to be entertained, football is a sport therfore that's the base level of what to expect when you buy a ticket. If instead you get 11 overpaid players running about seeming to not give a **** whilst playing for their/your country then you have every right to be aggrieved.
As Grecian said, it's not about the result per se, it's the lack of effort that people react to. They've have had a massive bollocking from Capello (oh no, that will have hurt their confidence!) and deserve to have a bollocking from the crowd who let them know that frankly they weren't good enough. You weren't going to cheer them off, so as Brumby says the other options are silence or **** off home.
Supporters do have the right to be entertained, football is a sport therfore that's the base level of what to expect when you buy a ticket. If instead you get 11 overpaid players running about seeming to not give a **** whilst playing for their/your country then you have every right to be aggrieved.
As Grecian said, it's not about the result per se, it's the lack of effort that people react to. They've have had a massive bollocking from Capello (oh no, that will have hurt their confidence!) and deserve to have a bollocking from the crowd who let them know that frankly they weren't good enough. You weren't going to cheer them off, so as Brumby says the other options are silence or **** off home.
GIMH
Norwood's on Fire
Ha, amazing
Anyway, not a lot to say that hasn't already been said, not sure how I'd compose the side but I'd like to see Gerrard in the hole and Joe Cole on the pitch
RE booing - not something I generally would do myself but to label someone who has travelled across the globe a **** supporter because they boo at the end of an atrocious performance is very strange logic.
SS, did you say earlier that if we win we can still go out? Because that's not true UIMM
Anyway, we'll beat Slovenia 5-0 and everything will be okay
duffer
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Great bit of work from Rob Smyth of the guardian here
A quick Saturday morning quiz.
Q. Something goes badly wrong. Whose fault is it?
Is it:
a. The FOREIGNER who is a natural born FOREIGN winner, who will go down as one of the greatest FOREIGN managers of all time, and who has won major trophies with pretty much every FOREIGN club he has managed, but who is FOREIGN to the ENGLISH game.
b. The ENGLISH players who have consistently underperformed for ENGLAND and who lack the basic ability to pass the ball to another ENGLISHMAN, but who are ENGLISH and always give 7,000,000 per cent for ENGLAND.
That's right, the serrated ones are out for Fabio Capello after last night's fiasco.
First, so we can get him out the way, is Jamie Redknapp in the Mail. "Great managers, such as José Mourinho, will see where it is going wrong and act decisively," he said, ignoring the fact that Capello wrote the book of decisive, early tactical changes, and has been doing it throughout his England reign. "But where was that last night? There was a lot of shaking of heads and looking at the floor from the players." What an evil puppeteer Capello is: he won't even let our lads look up from the floor!
The Sun decided that Capello had got his selection, tactics, substitutions and motivation WRONG, concluding that "The flawless reputation and aura of invincibility he brought in the wake of the Wally with the Brolly is now consigned to history. Poor selections, poor motivation and another flat, turgid display make you wonder if Capello has lost the plot completely. Could go down in history as our most unsuccessful boss at a World Cup."
"Increasingly, there seems little rhyme or reason to Capello's methods," added Paul Joyce in the Daily Express. "While the problems now run far deeper than the goalkeeping issue that dominated the build-up, it is a good place to start. The whole process has been handled appallingly and undermined all three of his keepers to a certain degree.
"The concern is that this whole unsightly episode has been entirely in keeping with much that has engulfed England since the end of the season – from the Capello Index to the farcical manner in which his provisional squad was whittled down from 30 to 23 – and the confusion continued on the pitch. There was no tempo, no aggression and, worryingly, little sign of a coherent plan as Algeria happily stood toe to toe. England were ponderous and pedestrian."
"It's back to the drawing board for Capello," said the Telegraph's Henry Winter. "The sooner he pushes Steven Gerrard up behind a front-running Rooney the quicker England can shake off the shackles of anxiety.
"England had lined up in a 4-4-2 formation, although with Barry holding and Gerrard drifting in from the left. So keen to get on the ball, the Liverpool midfielder soon vacated his starting station, bringing some energy and poise to the centre," added Winter, describing the kind of performance that usually prompts phrases like 'headless chicken', 'rank tactical indiscipline' and 'you're not Maradona, you foreheadless goon'.
That forehead is probably Capello's fault, too.
A quick Saturday morning quiz.
Q. Something goes badly wrong. Whose fault is it?
Is it:
a. The FOREIGNER who is a natural born FOREIGN winner, who will go down as one of the greatest FOREIGN managers of all time, and who has won major trophies with pretty much every FOREIGN club he has managed, but who is FOREIGN to the ENGLISH game.
b. The ENGLISH players who have consistently underperformed for ENGLAND and who lack the basic ability to pass the ball to another ENGLISHMAN, but who are ENGLISH and always give 7,000,000 per cent for ENGLAND.
That's right, the serrated ones are out for Fabio Capello after last night's fiasco.
First, so we can get him out the way, is Jamie Redknapp in the Mail. "Great managers, such as José Mourinho, will see where it is going wrong and act decisively," he said, ignoring the fact that Capello wrote the book of decisive, early tactical changes, and has been doing it throughout his England reign. "But where was that last night? There was a lot of shaking of heads and looking at the floor from the players." What an evil puppeteer Capello is: he won't even let our lads look up from the floor!
The Sun decided that Capello had got his selection, tactics, substitutions and motivation WRONG, concluding that "The flawless reputation and aura of invincibility he brought in the wake of the Wally with the Brolly is now consigned to history. Poor selections, poor motivation and another flat, turgid display make you wonder if Capello has lost the plot completely. Could go down in history as our most unsuccessful boss at a World Cup."
"Increasingly, there seems little rhyme or reason to Capello's methods," added Paul Joyce in the Daily Express. "While the problems now run far deeper than the goalkeeping issue that dominated the build-up, it is a good place to start. The whole process has been handled appallingly and undermined all three of his keepers to a certain degree.
"The concern is that this whole unsightly episode has been entirely in keeping with much that has engulfed England since the end of the season – from the Capello Index to the farcical manner in which his provisional squad was whittled down from 30 to 23 – and the confusion continued on the pitch. There was no tempo, no aggression and, worryingly, little sign of a coherent plan as Algeria happily stood toe to toe. England were ponderous and pedestrian."
"It's back to the drawing board for Capello," said the Telegraph's Henry Winter. "The sooner he pushes Steven Gerrard up behind a front-running Rooney the quicker England can shake off the shackles of anxiety.
"England had lined up in a 4-4-2 formation, although with Barry holding and Gerrard drifting in from the left. So keen to get on the ball, the Liverpool midfielder soon vacated his starting station, bringing some energy and poise to the centre," added Winter, describing the kind of performance that usually prompts phrases like 'headless chicken', 'rank tactical indiscipline' and 'you're not Maradona, you foreheadless goon'.
That forehead is probably Capello's fault, too.
Scaly piscine
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Yes loving how all of a sudden the pinnacle of mediocrity and horrible first touches Cowardly Thug is suddenly the saviour. Sorry what he's been **** for England for almost his entire career, he's been **** for Liverpool the season just gone. Yea what a player eh.
How many times did his first touch and lack of discipline cost England last night? Plenty is the answer.
How many times did his first touch and lack of discipline cost England last night? Plenty is the answer.
BoyBrumby
Englishman
Think the fault lies more at the feet of the players, in particular Rooney who seems to have almost visibly shriveled under the harshest spotlight, but some of Capello's selections have looked unusual.
His picking and playing of SW-P defies the evidence of my eyes and pretty much every England followers' too, I'd warrant. There's nothing is his locker that's superior to Walcott, who was deemed surplus to requirements. As Theo's (& Johnson's) ship has sailed one would humbly suggest Joe Cole is a better option to a player who's basically an inferior version of Lennon, who was already playing. &, if Carragher was going to be the 3rd choice (after Rio & King) centre-half, why take both Upson and Dawson too? By omitting one another attacking option could've been included.
His picking and playing of SW-P defies the evidence of my eyes and pretty much every England followers' too, I'd warrant. There's nothing is his locker that's superior to Walcott, who was deemed surplus to requirements. As Theo's (& Johnson's) ship has sailed one would humbly suggest Joe Cole is a better option to a player who's basically an inferior version of Lennon, who was already playing. &, if Carragher was going to be the 3rd choice (after Rio & King) centre-half, why take both Upson and Dawson too? By omitting one another attacking option could've been included.
chalky
International Debutant
Although you quibble about the odd selection (SWP being the obvious exampe) the fact is we are just not good enough. Gerard & Lampard have rarely done it for England Heskey doesn't score and Rooney looks a shadow of a player that dominated the Premiership. The fact is if your 4 biggest goal threats arn't performing your gonna struggle.
Goughy
Hall of Fame Member
I dont fancy going through the whole team and getting bogged down in debates over individual players. The fact is, England have 3 to 4, possibly 5 good players and the rest are ordinary to horrible players. Yesterday, the good players performed poorly. The first touch of Rooney was terrible. Just second rate and the whole team looked half a yard off the pace.
Yesterday we had, up front, a guy that cant score goals with a guy dropping 50 yards deep to collect the ball and was hardly in the danger area. Not good.
Anyway, Algeria were ordinary, England were ****. Still in the WC. A bad result but it didnt derail the train.
Usually people find their level pretty quickly but SWP is the exception. He should be playing against the likes of Colchester and Dag & Red rather than in the WC.
He was really disappointed and offered nothing. Part of the problem is that he was dropping 50 yards deep to pick up the ball. Its sad, at the moment, that if you neutralise Rooney to pretty much stop England.
I get the logic behind all the good things Heskey brings to the table but it is flawed logic. Number 1 thing listed on the job description of a forward is the ability to score goals. Heskey doesnt have that edge to him.
Yesterday we had, up front, a guy that cant score goals with a guy dropping 50 yards deep to collect the ball and was hardly in the danger area. Not good.
Anyway, Algeria were ordinary, England were ****. Still in the WC. A bad result but it didnt derail the train.
BoyBrumby
Englishman
Oh, yeah. No arguments here. It was just that before the world cup build up Capello hadn't put a foot wrong tactically or selectorially. He seems to have muffed a couple of calls.
However, sad fact is if your players don't perform it's rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic.
grecian
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
In the Prem it's all about getting the ball forward quickly, and creating goals in a direct fashion. The only team that play possesion football is the Arse, and no Englishman play for them.
Yet, it's always been the way I'm afraid, the style of play loved by the majority of our fans doesn't work at International level
Neil Pickup
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This will change when Tis takes City to the Prem.In the Prem it's all about getting the ball forward quickly, and creating goals in a direct fashion. The only team that play possesion football is the Arse, and no Englishman play for them.
Yet, it's always been the way I'm afraid, the style of play loved by the majority of our fans doesn't work at International level
benchmark00
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And while the Rooney family is at it, his mother should apologise for his mug face imo.
silentstriker
The Wheel is Forever
Well that depends what you mean 'turn on their sides.' And also by 'when things go bad'.
If by turning on them, you support another team instead of your own - those fans should be flogged, skinned and then executed by a short stake. I have no respect for fans like that.
If you mean boo them out of spite when they lose to a much superior team, that's petty. But if you don't think they've had a go, that's disrespecting you as a fan and the sport itself. Nothing could possibly happen that would ever lead me to support another team besides the Eagles. Ever. They could go 0-16 for twenty years straight and every one of our games would sell out within five minutes of the tickets going on sale (which is what happens now). That's loyalty. If another fan (say a Cowboy fan) starts booing the Eagles, he'll be lucky to get out of there alive.
We've earned the right to tell them when they let us down. The players come and go, they'll go where the money is, and rightly so, and I couldn't care less about them, the fans are what matter. To say those fans are disloyal in anyway is absolutely inane and shows absolutely no appreciation for how deeply we care.
IMO the dispassionate observes who appreciate 'the sport for itself' (whatever that means) are the ones that add nothing. What's sport without passion? It's just another boring irrelevant activity with arbitrary rules.
LongHopCassidy
International Captain
To this armchair bandwagon fan I think England's dependence on Beckham's crossing has been more than a little exposed. They're backing Gerrard's passing nous to create chances in the centre and the sweepers have let him down, and badly. Even Algeria managed to pick this up and crowd the attacking midfielders accordingly.
Also, Defoe should start. Heskey's latest effort was diabolical, even if he earned his spot after the US match. Doesn't really matter if he's there to create chances and not score goals - if Rooney won't, then someone has to.
Also, Defoe should start. Heskey's latest effort was diabolical, even if he earned his spot after the US match. Doesn't really matter if he's there to create chances and not score goals - if Rooney won't, then someone has to.