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Greatest Ever Test XI

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Mr Mxyzptlk said:
I wrote an article explaining why I'd take Lara over Richards a while back. If I can find it, I'll post it here.

Both Lara and Richards were inconsistent, but Lara has accomplished more. Richards gets more glory because of the era in which he played. The West Indies was a force then and Viv Richards was the personification of that force. Now Lara is a great among the mediocre and will never get the recognition he perhaps deserves.
Good point, mate.



Given that I have only been watching serious cricket since the 87 world cup, my all time test XI would be:


Sunil Gavaskar
Gordon Greenidge
Viv Richards
Brian Lara (c)
Sachin Tendulkar
Rahul Dravid
Adam Gilchrist (wk)
Muttiah Muralitharan
Glenn McGrath
Curtly Ambrose
Wasim Akram


I have excluded guys I have not watched too much.
 

chaminda_00

Hall of Fame Member
Mr Mxyzptlk said:
I wrote an article explaining why I'd take Lara over Richards a while back. If I can find it, I'll post it here.

Both Lara and Richards were inconsistent, but Lara has accomplished more. Richards gets more glory because of the era in which he played. The West Indies was a force then and Viv Richards was the personification of that force. Now Lara is a great among the mediocre and will never get the recognition he perhaps deserves.
That a very interesting situation cus in Australia guys like Martyn and Ponting aren't rated as high as other guys who played for Australia in lesser eras, i.e Border and Greg Chappell. When Australian All Time XI are picked these guys are continually not picked. If u look at Ponting's record it is second to none, he has the second highest average in Australia Test Cricket, only Bradman is in front of him. Martyn i guess is another story cus he onlt reached his potential recently, but an average of 51 after 56 Test is a pretty fair effect and is actually higher then guys like Border, S Waugh and N Harvey. When most Aussie All Time XI come out u generally only see three of the current team Gilchrist, Warne and McGarth.
 
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Scallywag

Banned
chaminda_00 said:
That a very interesting situation cus in Australia guys like Martyn and Ponting aren't rated as high as other guys who played for Australia in lesser eras, i.e Border and Greg Chappell. When Australian All Time XI are picked these guys are continually not picked. If u look at Ponting's record it is second to none, he has the second highest average in Australia Test Cricket, only Bradman is in front of him. Martyn i guess is another story cus he onlt reached his potential recently, but an average of 51 after 56 Test is a pretty fair effect and is actually higher then guys like Border, S Waugh and N Harvey. When most Aussie All Time XI come out u generally only see three of the current team Gilchrist, Warne and McGarth.
Langer
Hayden
Ponting
G Chappel
Bradman
Martyn
Gilchrist
Warne
Thompson
Lillee
McGrath

Hows that for a Aussie 11, 6 batsmen average over 50 plus Langer.
The bowling could be tweaked a bit but I dont think you would improve it just a different combo.
 

chaminda_00

Hall of Fame Member
Scallywag said:
Langer
Hayden
Ponting
G Chappel
Bradman
Martyn
Gilchrist
Warne
Thompson
Lillee
McGrath

Hows that for a Aussie 11, 6 batsmen average over 50 plus Langer.
The bowling could be tweaked a bit but I dont think you would improve it just a different combo.
I would have Ray Lindwall over Thomo
 

howardj

International Coach
marc71178 said:
Gavaskar?

Pull the other one.
What?

Average 51
Runs 10 000+
Centuries: 34
Years in Test Cricket: 16

Speaks for itself. Furthermore, I think there's a dearth of openers.
 

chaminda_00

Hall of Fame Member
howardj said:
What?

Average 51
Runs 10 000+
Centuries: 34
Years in Test Cricket: 16

Speaks for itself. Furthermore, I think there's a dearth of openers.
He got a brilliant record but he isn't a certaintly compared to Bradman, Gilchrist and Sobers.
 

howardj

International Coach
chaminda_00 said:
He got a brilliant record but he isn't a certaintly compared to Bradman, Gilchrist and Sobers.
Wasn't comparing him, I was saying he was a certainty along with the aforementioned. Granted, he was not as outstanding, however taking into account the dearth of openers, he is a certainty IMO nonetheless.
 

Jamee999

Hall of Fame Member
A No Australia and India World XI!

B Richards
Hobbs
Lara
V.Richards
Pollock
Sobers
Stewart
Akram
Murrali
Walsh
Ambrose

Unlucky: Younis, Marshall, Holding, Shaun Pollock, Hutton, Imran Khan, Hadlee.
 

psxpro

Banned
Deja moo said:
And Gilchrist is ? See Andy Flower.

Gilchrist is a class ahead of Flower.
Flower was a great player but Gilchrist is much, better, Flower could not take games away from opposition as Gilchrist can in such a short time.
 

chaminda_00

Hall of Fame Member
Deja moo said:
And Gilchrist is ? See Andy Flower.
If there was going to be someone who would make the World XI side in front of him it would be someone like Healy cus of his keeping. Gilchrist is a better batsmen then Flower and Gilly is argubably slightly in front of him in keeping as well but it is pretty close. I would go for Gilly over Flower, it is a pretty easy call.
 

chaminda_00

Hall of Fame Member
howardj said:
Wasn't comparing him, I was saying he was a certainty along with the aforementioned. Granted, he was not as outstanding, however taking into account the dearth of openers, he is a certainty IMO nonetheless.
You have to remember their have been three great opening combinations down the years. Sutcliffe/Hobbs, Langer/Hayden and Greeniage/Haynes. That way Gavaskar isn't a centainty, i would go for those three combinations in front of Gavaskar and some else. These are their averages together:
Sutcliffe/Hobbs: 3249 runs @ 87.8
Langer/Hayden: 4465 runs @ 55.8
Greenidge/Haynes: 6482 runs @ 47.3
 

LongHopCassidy

International Captain
All-time Australian XI

1. Arthur Morris
2. Matthew Hayden
3. Don Bradman
4. Charlie Macartney
5. Steve Waugh
6. Allan Border
7. Adam Gilchrist
8. Ray Lindwall
9. Shane Warne
10. Dennis Lillee
11. Jeff Thomson
 

slugger

State Vice-Captain
nz XI

G.Turner
M.Richardson
A.Jones
B.Sutcliff
M.Crowe*
J.Coney
C.Cairns
R.Hadlee
A Parore+
J.Bracewell
R.Mots

no current players. I'm little unsure about J.Coney. but I thought his part time bowling maybe useful and technically he was a good batsmen and hadlee and cairns could thump it around while he holds up and hangs around with the lower order.
 

FaaipDeOiad

Hall of Fame Member
Scallywag said:
Langer
Hayden
Ponting
G Chappel
Bradman
Martyn
Gilchrist
Warne
Thompson
Lillee
McGrath

Hows that for a Aussie 11, 6 batsmen average over 50 plus Langer.
The bowling could be tweaked a bit but I dont think you would improve it just a different combo.
I think the bowling can be improved. Alan Davidson is in the top 5 bowlers since World War 2 in my book, no way he can be left out.

My Australian XI

Arthur Morris
Justin Langer
Donald Bradman
Greg Chappell
Steve Waugh
Keith Miller
Adam Gilchrist
Alan Davidson
Shane Warne
Dennis Lillee
Glenn McGrath

Alternatively, put Harvey in at 4, move Chappell and Waugh down and drop Miller, or Border in at 6 and drop Miller.
 

FaaipDeOiad

Hall of Fame Member
howardj said:
Wasn't comparing him, I was saying he was a certainty along with the aforementioned. Granted, he was not as outstanding, however taking into account the dearth of openers, he is a certainty IMO nonetheless.
I don't agree. Hobbs is a certainty, Gavaskar competes with Hutton and Sutcliffe for the second openers spot.
 

C_C

International Captain
I think Gavaskar is a sure pick. Opening partnerships are largely irrelvant, because we never got to see how they would've done with other openers from other teams.
I see no reason why Gavaskar/Greenidge combo wouldnt have done better than Greenidge/Haynes combo, given that Gavaskar was a superior batsman to them than any.

IMO, he isnt Bradman- no one is, but he certainly can rank with anyone of them- Tendulkar, Lara, Sobers, Viv etc.

IMO, he is the best opener in history of cricket, fuddy duddy amatuer cricket of Hobbs-Sutcliffe included.
He had the most success fo anyone facing up to the WI four prong and was one of the best players ever of spin as well. And unknown to many, he could be dasher amonst the best of them. Often he was the kingpin of IND batting and getting gavaskar meant running amok through the batsmen following, which is why he took the dour and obdurate way to keep his wicket intact. But he has run-a-ball century against Marshall-holding-Garner/Roberts, a 100 ball 90 or so along with it to boot. To my knowledge, no one- not even Viv in domestic cricket- has a quicker century/90 than Gavaskar against these bowlers.

Add his incredible form in the 2nd innings of the team and the best 4th innings prowess of all IMO, he is a certainty in my books.
When Gavaskar was there, IND were capable of chasing down almost any target and they've come close to beating humongous targets in the 4th innings.

As per Gilly and Flower...yes, Gilly plays more aggressively but he has the option to. He is surrounded by 50+ average batsmen who will do the majority of the work by the time Gilly comes and all that is left for Gilly to do is flog the dying horse.
Flower on the other hand, had zero support. NONE. The next-best was briefly houghton but he retired much too early in flower's career and then it was his brother grant flower/campbell- 30-35 average mediocre alsorans.
Add a fair sprinkling of hopeless batsmen averaging 20-30 and you got Flower's scenario.
Despite that, he's done well against almost all attacks- IMO he was just as good as Gilly against pace but considerably more composed against spin.

I would pick Gilly in my test lineup too, because he is a snug fit for #7 and bats well with the tail but man-2-man, there is nothing that seperates Gilly and Flower IMO.....

but in an alltime XI, Gavaskar alongside Sobers and Bradman, is one of the certainties. Gavaskar has faced far superior attacks than Hobbs has in far more variety of conditions and in a far more intense crucible.... comparing him to Hobbs is a joke really.... Hobbs is nowhere close IMO.
Its almost as silly as comparing Bill Tillden and Pete Sampras.
 

howardj

International Coach
C_C said:
I think Gavaskar is a sure pick. Opening partnerships are largely irrelvant, because we never got to see how they would've done with other openers from other teams.
I see no reason why Gavaskar/Greenidge combo wouldnt have done better than Greenidge/Haynes combo, given that Gavaskar was a superior batsman to them than any.

IMO, he isnt Bradman- no one is, but he certainly can rank with anyone of them- Tendulkar, Lara, Sobers, Viv etc.

IMO, he is the best opener in history of cricket, fuddy duddy amatuer cricket of Hobbs-Sutcliffe included.
He had the most success fo anyone facing up to the WI four prong and was one of the best players ever of spin as well. And unknown to many, he could be dasher amonst the best of them. Often he was the kingpin of IND batting and getting gavaskar meant running amok through the batsmen following, which is why he took the dour and obdurate way to keep his wicket intact. But he has run-a-ball century against Marshall-holding-Garner/Roberts, a 100 ball 90 or so along with it to boot. To my knowledge, no one- not even Viv in domestic cricket- has a quicker century/90 than Gavaskar against these bowlers.



but in an alltime XI, Gavaskar alongside Sobers and Bradman, is one of the certainties. Gavaskar has faced far superior attacks than Hobbs has in far more variety of conditions and in a far more intense crucible.... comparing him to Hobbs is a joke really.... Hobbs is nowhere close IMO.
Its almost as silly as comparing Bill Tillden and Pete Sampras.
Couldnt have put it better myself. Except to add that against arguably the most awesome pace attack cricket has known - West Indies in the 70's and 80's - Gavaskar averaged a breathtaking 65. In the West Indies he averaged 70. Game over.
 

Dasa

International Vice-Captain
Mr Mxyzptlk said:
I wrote an article explaining why I'd take Lara over Richards a while back. If I can find it, I'll post it here.

Both Lara and Richards were inconsistent, but Lara has accomplished more. Richards gets more glory because of the era in which he played. The West Indies was a force then and Viv Richards was the personification of that force. Now Lara is a great among the mediocre and will never get the recognition he perhaps deserves.
Another thing is because of the Windies' strength, he never had to face the best...
 

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