Greatest All Time ODI XI

[trundler]

Also, Pollock averages 31 in world cups so I wouldn't have him ahead of McGrath at all

 

[stephen]

Hadlee at 8 , Akram at 9 no reason to worry about batting depth

Jaya + Symonds Inferior in both batting and bowling compared to Lara + Kapil

Gilly + Beven above Lara + Dhoni ? No way.

Akram bats above Pollock ??

Kapil at 7, Hadlee at 8 and Akram at 9 means that if you find your side five down in the 32nd over, you're not going to get enough out of your tail. Because usually being that many down that early means that there's a bit in the pitch and batsman averaging around 20 aren't going to be able to rescue the side if the likes of Viv and Kohli haven't survived.

You dramatically overrate Kapil's batting. He has a batting average of 24 ffs. Jaya wasn't as good of a batsman as Lara, but Symonds was miles ahead of Kapil as a batsman.

Lara + Dhoni with the bat is pretty damn close to Gilly plus Bevan. Bevan averages more than Dhoni by as much as Lara averages more than Gilly. And Dhoni played in a much easier era for batting than any of the other three.

Yeah, swap Pollock and Akram unless they're coming in with 20 balls to go.

 

[stephen]

Also, Pollock averages 31 in world cups so I wouldn't have him ahead of McGrath at all

The third quick for a non-Australian XI is interesting. Some good choices, all of which have their pros and cons - Pollock, Hadlee, Donald, Ambrose and Waqar all spring to mind.

 

[trundler]

Akram-Garner-McGrath-Murali is a woeful tail though. Who are the best bowling all rounders who bowl spin?

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Kapil at 7, Hadlee at 8 and Akram at 9 means that if you find your side five down in the 32nd over, you're not going to get enough out of your tail. Because usually being that many down that early means that there's a bit in the pitch and batsman averaging around 20 aren't going to be able to rescue the side if the likes of Viv and Kohli haven't survived.

You dramatically overrate Kapil's batting. He has a batting average of 24 ffs. Jaya wasn't as good of a batsman as Lara, but Symonds was miles ahead of Kapil as a batsman.

Lara + Dhoni with the bat is pretty damn close to Gilly plus Bevan. Bevan averages more than Dhoni by as much as Lara averages more than Gilly. And Dhoni played in a much easier era for batting than any of the other three.

Yeah, swap Pollock and Akram unless they're coming in with 20 balls to go.

Kapil averaged 24 , when many specialists averaged less than 30. Kapil was the highest ranked Indian batsman for most of the 80s , so he is definitely a 30 plus batsman in Symonds era. Hadlee may be 27-28.
( Kapil averaged 30 at 100 for a decade iirc , almost the length of Symonds total career I guess )
And the difference in Average will be bigger between Lara and Jaya than it is between Kapil and Symonds.
Then , Kapil was one of the top bowlers of his era , Jaya / Symonds not. They are not even specialist category.

Beven can be a burden when there is a big score to chase.

And FYI
Lara AVG is 10 points higher than Gilly as an opener , that too without considering Lara opened in early 90s of low scoring era.

 

[Malcolm]

Beven can be a burden when there is a big score to chase.

TBF, Dhoni is pretty much the same in big chases.

 

[Red]

Akram-Garner-McGrath-Murali is a woeful tail though. Who are the best bowling all rounders who bowl spin?

Not going to lose a heap but including Shakib I guess, although Murali is still the best ODI spinner in my eyes.


Tendulkar
Gilchrist
Richards
Kohli
Flintoff
AB DeVilliers
Symonds
Shakib
Wasim
Garner
McGrath


Actually quite like this combo. A lot. Batting order can be messed with considerably depending on the nature of the game.

 

[Attitude]

Okay since we are talking long tails, I will add an allrounder XI. Only condition must have taken 100 ODI wickets and scored 2000 runs to qualify (2 keeper batsmen allowed as exceptions).

Tendulkar
Gilchrist
Kallis
Viv
Shakib
MSD
Flintoff
Afridi
Akram
Kapil
Pollock

 

[Attitude]

Arguably 2 keepers is too much. So you could opt for only one keeper. Botham, Symonds, Klusner some players to miss out.

 

[Attitude]

Bowling all-rounders XI 1500 runs and 250 Wkts at least with 1 space for keeper -

Jayasuriya
Gilchrist
Afridi
Kallis
Shakib
Abdul Razzak
Kapil Dev
Wasim
Pollock
Vettori
Vaas

 

[Burgey]

Kapil averaged 24 , when many specialists averaged less than 30. Kapil was the highest ranked Indian batsman for most of the 80s , so he is definitely a 30 plus batsman in Symonds era. Hadlee may be 27-28.
( Kapil averaged 30 at 100 for a decade iirc , almost the length of Symonds total career I guess )
And the difference in Average will be bigger between Lara and Jaya than it is between Kapil and Symonds.
Then , Kapil was one of the top bowlers of his era , Jaya / Symonds not. They are not even specialist category.

Beven can be a burden when there is a big score to chase.

And FYI
Lara AVG is 10 points higher than Gilly as an opener , that too without considering Lara opened in early 90s of low scoring era.

When and how? I mean, if you're going to say Kapil gets extra batting points to play in the current era. why doesn't Bevan?

 

[stephen]

Kapil averaged 24 , when many specialists averaged less than 30. Kapil was the highest ranked Indian batsman for most of the 80s , so he is definitely a 30 plus batsman in Symonds era. Hadlee may be 27-28.
( Kapil averaged 30 at 100 for a decade iirc , almost the length of Symonds total career I guess )
And the difference in Average will be bigger between Lara and Jaya than it is between Kapil and Symonds.
Then , Kapil was one of the top bowlers of his era , Jaya / Symonds not. They are not even specialist category.

Beven can be a burden when there is a big score to chase.

And FYI
Lara AVG is 10 points higher than Gilly as an opener , that too without considering Lara opened in early 90s of low scoring era.

If you're going to adjust Kapil's batting up by 30% (minimum) then you should also adjust his bowling, which makes him about as good as Southie with an average around 35.

Kapil in your side would be a 5th bowler and specialist number 7. Klusener and Symonds were both better at that role, remembering that Kapil would be used in the middle overs when the ball isn't doing anything, instead of with the new ball.

So again, it's pretty clear that Lara and Kapil combined are not in the same class as Symonds and Jaya with the bat, even if Kapil was a better bowler than both. The team feels a lot more balanced when you share the bowling duties between Symonds and Jaya as well - like I said, Kapil is going to be bowling containment only and isn't going to get the ball until the middle overs when he's behind Garner, Hadlee and McGrath.

And Bevan + Gilchrist is easily on a par with Lara + Dhoni. Bevan had better-than-Dhoni stats a decade and a half before Dhoni. Lara was a step up from Gilly with the bat, but not by a huge amount. Their averages over the course of their careers are quite close and they played in mostly the same era and Gilchrist had a significantly higher strike rate.

I'd also like to add that Gilchrist and Bevan have 5 world cup victories between them where both players made significant finals contributions. Dhoni has one but Lara doesn't have any.

 

[stephen]

Oh and your comment about Bevan being a liability is so laughable it must be a joke. He probably hit the finest list A century of all time in a chase against the finest list A bowling attack ever assembled. If it was counted as an ODI (which it really should have been) it would have been considered the best ODI innings to that point.

Even without that, he often came in with 100+ to chase at a run a ball and chased it down perfectly. I'm the 90s that was considered virtually impossible. He was widely regarded as the best ODI batsman of the 90s.

 

[mr_mister]

Yeah it's a travesty that game wasn't recognised and other world xi games have been (I think)

 

[stephen]

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...th-odi-australia-tour-of-south-africa-1996-97

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...ralia-5th-odi-australia-tour-of-india-2000-01

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...s-new-zealand-5th-match-coca-cola-cup-1997-98

Three examples of Bevan in relatively large chases. Not slow and making significant contributions with the bat.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Yeah it's a travesty that game wasn't recognised and other world xi games have been (I think)

Wasim Akram was bowling with a tennis ball at one point. If anything that innings has gotten overrated with time. It was an excellent innings in an exhibition game and that's about it. Bevan's played around 30 knocks better than that one.

 

[mr_mister]

Wasim Akram was bowling with a tennis ball at one point. If anything that innings has gotten overrated with time. It was an excellent innings in an exhibition game and that's about it. Bevan's played around 30 knocks better than that one.

Wait what? Lol I didn't know that. I've seen a YouTube highlights clip and I thought it looked professional. Moreso than that tsunami relief game years later. If their was a tennis ball at any point it shouldn't even have list A status

 

[OverratedSanity]

Yeah pretty sure Wasim had a couple of overs atleast in the middle of the innings where he used a tennis ball. Not sure if Bevan faced him during that but still.

 

[stephen]

He used the tennis ball once, as a joke at the start of the innings and it was flagged as a dead ball.

 

[ankitj]

Not going to lose a heap but including Shakib I guess, although Murali is still the best ODI spinner in my eyes.


Tendulkar
Gilchrist
Richards
Kohli
Flintoff
AB DeVilliers
Symonds
Shakib
Wasim
Garner
McGrath


Actually quite like this combo. A lot. Batting order can be messed with considerably depending on the nature of the game.

Shakib will be cannon fodder for an ATG batting line up.