Greatest All Time ODI XI

[OverratedSanity]

Shakib will be cannon fodder for the for an ATG batting line up.

Symonds more so than Shakib

 

[trundler]

Yeah, can't have him as a frontline bowler. Don't trust Symonds with the ball either

 

[trundler]

How about Hussey at 6?

 

[stephen]

Yeah, can't have him as a frontline bowler. Don't trust Symonds with the ball either

There's a difference between Shakib being your number 4 bowler and Symonds being your number 5 bowler. You're better off with Warne/ Murali/ Saqlain as your spinner.

 

[harsh.ag]

There's a difference between Shakib being your number 4 bowler and Symonds being your number 5 bowler. You're better off with Warne/ Murali/ Saqlain as your spinner.

Tbf it was Flintoff and Shakib sharing the 4th-5th bowler's roles, which is fine, I suppose.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

If you're going to adjust Kapil's batting up by 30% (minimum) then you should also adjust his bowling, which makes him about as good as Southie with an average around 35.

Kapil in your side would be a 5th bowler and specialist number 7. Klusener and Symonds were both better at that role, remembering that Kapil would be used in the middle overs when the ball isn't doing anything, instead of with the new ball.

So again, it's pretty clear that Lara and Kapil combined are not in the same class as Symonds and Jaya with the bat, even if Kapil was a better bowler than both. The team feels a lot more balanced when you share the bowling duties between Symonds and Jaya as well - like I said, Kapil is going to be bowling containment only and isn't going to get the ball until the middle overs when he's behind Garner, Hadlee and McGrath.

And Bevan + Gilchrist is easily on a par with Lara + Dhoni. Bevan had better-than-Dhoni stats a decade and a half before Dhoni. Lara was a step up from Gilly with the bat, but not by a huge amount. Their averages over the course of their careers are quite close and they played in mostly the same era and Gilchrist had a significantly higher strike rate.

I'd also like to add that Gilchrist and Bevan have 5 world cup victories between them where both players made significant finals contributions. Dhoni has one but Lara doesn't have any.

It won't work like that ,
Kapil Batting was close to specialist category , and been ranked among top 15 bats almost for a decade. Same with the ball he was top 5 or top 10 bowler .

A top 5-10 bowler averaging 35 doesn't make sense.

Whatever be the situation , Kapil can bowl better than Symonds and Jaya. With Kapil bowling 10 overs you can save 10 runs on average in a match.

If Lara + Kapil is in 80 runs per match category, Jaya + Symonds will be in 75 category. And in bowling , Kapil miles better without question.

Lara played longer than Gilly did , that worsened his stats . Lara's top order stats is in Sachin , Kohli territory. As an opener he averages 10 points higher than Gilly. Gilly was faster.. but , same difference can be said about Dhoni and Beven. Beven averages more , Dhoni strikes faster. Dhoni is probably the most versatile Batsman ever. Also .. I don't want any slow scoring batsman in my team. My slowest Batsmen are Lara and Kohli.

WC wins doesn't matter.. it's team effort.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Not going to lose a heap but including Shakib I guess, although Murali is still the best ODI spinner in my eyes.


Tendulkar
Gilchrist
Richards
Kohli
Flintoff
AB DeVilliers
Symonds
Shakib
Wasim
Garner
McGrath


Actually quite like this combo. A lot. Batting order can be messed with considerably depending on the nature of the game.

6 bowlers ? Dhoni ,Ponting or Lara can easily replace Symonds here.
Sachin + Richards can support Akram and company if needed

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

When and how? I mean, if you're going to say Kapil gets extra batting points to play in the current era. why doesn't Bevan?

Bevan was slow for his era .

 

[stephen]

Bevan was slow for his era .

No he was not. That's a myth.

Bevan struck at exactly the pace he needed to to win games in the second innings. I'm the first innings his strike rate was 80, which is pretty good for his era. Bevan talked about batting slower at times deliberately to ensure that the team got as many runs as it could get across the 50 overs. His attitude was that batting out the 50 was more important for the team than scoring quickly - better to score 230 than to try and score 250 and be dismissed for 180.

Kapil was very good but he's not ATXI quality. You hand wave away his batting average of 24 and his bowling average of 27 by saying he was top 15 with the bat in his era, which isn't true. He's basically a fast bowling Afridi who was a bit better with the ball. He's dramatically overrated for a single innings against Zimbabwe.

Kapil was about as good with the ball as Klusener but averaged a good 16 runs less than him with the bat. Even with no other changes your team is improved by replacing Kapil with Klusener.

Lara as opener was very good but he didn't bat there in many innings. It's a small sample size that you're treating as though it represents his whole career, which it doesn't. His career figures suggest he wasn't that much better with the bat than Gilly.

Haynes was a better West Indian opener than Lara, as was Greenidge. Haynes has better claim to be in an AT side.

 

[srbhkshk]

Wrong Thread.

 

[h_hurricane]

No he was not. That's a myth.

Bevan struck at exactly the pace he needed to to win games in the second innings. I'm the first innings his strike rate was 80, which is pretty good for his era. Bevan talked about batting slower at times deliberately to ensure that the team got as many runs as it could get across the 50 overs. His attitude was that batting out the 50 was more important for the team than scoring quickly - better to score 230 than to try and score 250 and be dismissed for 180.

Kapil was very good but he's not ATXI quality. You hand wave away his batting average of 24 and his bowling average of 27 by saying he was top 15 with the bat in his era, which isn't true. He's basically a fast bowling Afridi who was a bit better with the ball. He's dramatically overrated for a single innings against Zimbabwe.

Kapil was about as good with the ball as Klusener but averaged a good 16 runs less than him with the bat. Even with no other changes your team is improved by replacing Kapil with Klusener.

Lara as opener was very good but he didn't bat there in many innings. It's a small sample size that you're treating as though it represents his whole career, which it doesn't. His career figures suggest he wasn't that much better with the bat than Gilly.

Haynes was a better West Indian opener than Lara, as was Greenidge. Haynes has better claim to be in an AT side.

Is this for real ? Kapil was well and truly an ODI ATG ( and of course a test ATG as well). The first great ODI all rounder and the pre-eminent ODI all rounder of 1980s. Played lead part in 1983 WC victory and 1985 World Championship of cricket. The leading ODI all rounder in ICC rankings year after year for 9 out of 10 years during the period 1982-91. As epic as they come.

You conveniently ignore the Batting strike rate and bowling economy rate when comparing Kapil with other all rounders.

Kapil - 95 & 3.71
Klusener - 90 & 4.70
Jayasuriya - 91 & 4.78
Symonds - 92 & 5.00

Among the above four, Kapil was the only all rounder who was excellent in both these aspects. You can era adjust either way, he would come on top.

Kapil's batting average is admittedly below par, however a fair comparison would be to give weightage to average as well as strike rate but that will be a longer discussion.

 

[harsh.ag]

You could just link to one of your previous 100 posts on the subject, you know.

 

[harsh.ag]

Love this XI:

Ponting
Sachin
Viv
Kohli
ABdV
Gilly +
Kapil
Pollock
Wasim
McGrath
Murali

Leaving out anyone with even a modicum of hackdom (except for Kapil's batting).

Bats deep, bats fast, great cake, great finishers, great bowling, Sachin and Viv as 6th bowlers, Gilly at 6 is a cheat that more teams should have. Slightly better batsman than Dhoni, lacks the hackiness of Klusener and Symonds, faster than Bevan. Hussey is the only other comparable one.

 

[h_hurricane]

Love this XI:

Ponting
Sachin
Viv
Kohli
ABdV
Gilly +
Kapil
Pollock
Wasim
McGrath
Murali

Leaving out anyone with even a modicum of hackdom (except for Kapil's batting).

Bats deep, bats fast, great cake, great finishers, great bowling, Sachin and Viv as 6th bowlers, Gilly at 6 is a cheat that more teams should have. Slightly better batsman than Dhoni, lacks the hackiness of Klusener and Symonds, faster than Bevan. Hussey is the only other comparable one.

Great XI this. Ponting not an opener but has played new ball a lot, hence wouldn't mind him playing fresh cherry. The way Butler is going, he will be a great addition to the team in the near future. Probably would have Gilly open in that case.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

No he was not. That's a myth.

Bevan struck at exactly the pace he needed to to win games in the second innings. I'm the first innings his strike rate was 80, which is pretty good for his era. Bevan talked about batting slower at times deliberately to ensure that the team got as many runs as it could get across the 50 overs. His attitude was that batting out the 50 was more important for the team than scoring quickly - better to score 230 than to try and score 250 and be dismissed for 180.

Kapil was very good but he's not ATXI quality. You hand wave away his batting average of 24 and his bowling average of 27 by saying he was top 15 with the bat in his era, which isn't true. He's basically a fast bowling Afridi who was a bit better with the ball. He's dramatically overrated for a single innings against Zimbabwe.

Kapil was about as good with the ball as Klusener but averaged a good 16 runs less than him with the bat. Even with no other changes your team is improved by replacing Kapil with Klusener.

Lara as opener was very good but he didn't bat there in many innings. It's a small sample size that you're treating as though it represents his whole career, which it doesn't. His career figures suggest he wasn't that much better with the bat than Gilly.

Haynes was a better West Indian opener than Lara, as was Greenidge. Haynes has better claim to be in an AT side.

Checked Bevan first innings strike rate - impressive ( still dhoni is my choice though)

Saying "Kapil bit better than Afridi with ball" is similar to saying " McGrath bit better than Kapil with ball "

As for Batting , Afridi highest ranking was 26 or something , Kapil regularly featured among top 15 in 80s and the highest position was 6 iirc. Border, Gower , Amarnath ..etc avgd 30 , Srikanth avgd 29 .. if 30 at 70 is specialist category , 24 at 95 is very close at least.

Lara's top order stats(1-3) pretty impressive , almost Sachin category. Gilly not close.

 

[Red]

6 bowlers ? Dhoni ,Ponting or Lara can easily replace Symonds here.
Sachin + Richards can support Akram and company if needed

No, because I want Symonds in my team, every time.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

No, because I want Symonds in my team, every time.

That's a good reason . I want Azharudin the most stylish Cricketer in my all-time odi 11 , Kohli out Azhar in.

 

[Red]

That's a good reason . I want Azharudin the most stylish Cricketer in my all-time odi 11 , Kohli out Azhar in.

You can have whoever you want, mate. You want to drop the best ODI batsman your country has produced for a half decent one who was involved in match fixing, go for it.

I'd always have Symonds- avg. 40, SR 92, best late innings striker I've seen. Plus a handy bowling option, and the best fielder I've seen (bar none). Fielding is vital in LO cricket.

 

[Red]

Actually hadn't seen that much of Shakib bowling until last night's game. Don't think I'd have him as my sole spinner in an ATG team.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

You can have whoever you want, mate. You want to drop the best ODI batsman your country has produced for a half decent one who was involved in match fixing, go for it.

I'd always have Symonds- avg. 40, SR 92, best late innings striker I've seen. Plus a handy bowling option, and the best fielder I've seen (bar none). Fielding is vital in LO cricket.

In a way you are doing the same , Symonds not even close to Dhoni , Lara or Ponting as a batsman, and his secondary skill will not be needed most of the times when you have 5 better bowlers and 2 part timers .


Azharudin - India's best fielder in last 30 years imo. Selection justified.

Btw who is better odi Batsman between Azhar and Symonds ?