Fringe Aussie fringe Players who would excel in other teams..

[Zinzan]

his average over the last year and a half gives a more accurate description of how well hes been bowling. 5 wkt hauls have never been the basis for comparison so i have no idea where you got that.



what kind of great batsman has never performed on a seamer friendly wicket? which is what hayden has done.



in which case swervy is wrong, as is anyone whos suggested that flintoff is already great.

4) If Hayden would have averaged less than 30 in the 80s then there is no reason

no because the other aussie batsmen have proven to be more than capable on seamer friendly wickets.

We agree to disagree...I don't think Hayden is overrated, but I do think Flintoff is slightly

I suppose the up and coming ashes series will decide this argument....If both Hayden and Flintoff have great series, perhaps we will both be wrong.

I say this because...generally English wickets suit seam bowling which will test your theory on Hayden and as far as Flintoff is concerned he will be testing his allround skill against the best in the world.....

 

[tooextracool]

everything has to be looked at in context, simply stating that if hayden succeeds in england, without looking at the conditions hes plays in will not prove anything.

 

[Zinzan]

everything has to be looked at in context, simply stating that if hayden succeeds in england, without looking at the conditions hes plays in will not prove anything.

Okay then...assuming they do play on seaming wickets then....unless England suddenly come up with bear Indian type spinning surfaces for the series.

 

[social]

personally i find it hard to believe that kaspa who bowled well consistently throughout the series was dropped for the finals.

Then you'll be even more surprised when Lee is picked ahead of him in the NZ tests

 

[social]

everything has to be looked at in context, simply stating that if hayden succeeds in england, without looking at the conditions hes plays in will not prove anything.

He'll continue to be regarded by all as top class.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Okay then...assuming they do play on seaming wickets then....unless England suddenly come up with bear Indian type spinning surfaces for the series.

If he succeeds, the wickets he played on won't be "seaming wickets", and if he fails, he will just be a bad batsman. If he succeeds in some matches but not in others, the ones where he failed will be seaming wickets, and the ones where he succeeded will be flat batting tracks.

That, I believe, is the criteria for determining whether or not a wicket is a "seaming wicket" when discussing Hayden with tec.

 

[mavric41]

The problem with England preparing seaming wickets is that McGrath, Gillespie and Kaspa will carve them up. Any spin and Warne comes into play.

 

[mavric41]

Then you'll be even more surprised when Lee is picked ahead of him in the NZ tests

Unfortunately (with the NSW bias rearing its ugly head) I feel it will be true.

One way to solve this is to play all 4 fast bowlers and bat Gilchrist at 6. (won't happen though)

 

[Zinzan]

when did i say that hes always performed in one dayers? no hes performed in patches in ODIs and hes failed miserably in tests. hence i would have kaspa ahead of him in both forms of the game.

Yeah that makes sense...Have Kaspa ahead of Lee in the onedayers.

Your dislike for Lee defies logic

You obviously didn't see Kaspa in the first onedayer against NZ. To remind you he conceded 23 in the 3rd to last over including a big 5 wides down the leg side and completely crumbled under pressure. He was dropped (or rotated as aust call it) for the next game. From a NZ'ers point of view I worry far more about Lee than Kaspa in oneday cricket.

Wish you were the Aussie selector when NZ play Aust

 

[mavric41]

Yeah that makes sense...Have Kaspa ahead of Lee in the onedayers.

Your dislike for Lee defies logic

You obviously didn't see Kaspa in the first onedayer against NZ. To remind you he conceded 23 in the 3rd to last over including a big 5 wides down the leg side and completely crumbled under pressure. He was dropped (or rotated as aust call it) for the next game. From a NZ'ers point of view I worry far more about Lee than Kaspa in oneday cricket.

Wish you were the Aussie selector when NZ play Aust

One over doesn't make a summer. Lee conceded over 60 runs in two games this summer and was still man of the series. Don't forget Kaspa was equal with both Simmo and Clarke as OD player of the year at the Allan Border medal.

 

[Dasa]

Kasprowicz since his comeback (Nov 2003):
18 ODIs, 33 wickets at 17.12 at an economy of 3.75

Lee in the same period:
26 ODIs, 39 wickets at 26.10 at an economy of 4.93

 

[chaminda_00]

The only fault in hayden game is not his in ability to play on seming wickets, it his in ability to play aganist geniuely fast bowler. At the start of his career he looked second rate aganist Ambrose, Walsh, Donald and Schultz. During the last test series he was second rate aganist Ahktar.

Even though he has a problem aganist super fast bowling , this doesn't make him overated in Test Cricket. An average of 54.3 opening the batting after 64 Test is up their with the most of the top opening batsmen.

 

[tooextracool]

Then you'll be even more surprised when Lee is picked ahead of him in the NZ tests

its comments like these that really infuriate me. how in the world someone as good as kaspa, whos bowled consistently well since his return and has really brought some well needed support for mcgrath and co can be dropped for a rubbish bowler like lee is quite beyond me. has kaspa done absolutely anything wrong that he deserves to be dropped?

 

[tooextracool]

He'll continue to be regarded by all as top class.

trust me, if he fails for the entire series against england, he'll be dropped from the side.

 

[tooextracool]

If he succeeds, the wickets he played on won't be "seaming wickets", and if he fails, he will just be a bad batsman. If he succeeds in some matches but not in others, the ones where he failed will be seaming wickets, and the ones where he succeeded will be flat batting tracks.

That, I believe, is the criteria for determining whether or not a wicket is a "seaming wicket" when discussing Hayden with tec.

and thats despite the fact that many people already know that hayden has an obvious weakness against seam and swing? of course no one would say anything since hes averaging over 50, but the fact is that people who can look beyond averages would know that hes been absolutely useless on seaming wickets thus far in his career.

 

[tooextracool]

Yeah that makes sense...Have Kaspa ahead of Lee in the onedayers.

Your dislike for Lee defies logic

You obviously didn't see Kaspa in the first onedayer against NZ. To remind you he conceded 23 in the 3rd to last over including a big 5 wides down the leg side and completely crumbled under pressure. He was dropped (or rotated as aust call it) for the next game. From a NZ'ers point of view I worry far more about Lee than Kaspa in oneday cricket.

yes it was 1 GAME! after that he bowled quite well in almost every game. and if we are going to look at one game, how about looking at those 3 games where brett lee was a complete disgrace and got hammered all over the park by everyone? even while mcgrath was bowling well at the other end and creating the pressure.

Wish you were the Aussie selector when NZ play Aust

as someone else has already pointed out, kaspa since his return has been nothing short of brilliant in both forms of the game. to even question dropping him is something that requires stupidity.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

how about looking at those 3 games where brett lee was a complete disgrace and got hammered all over the park by everyone?

You must be joking. How on earth is going for 6-7 an over for one game and taking a couple of wickets in the process comparable to conceeding 23 off an over at the death and losing a game?

I agree that Kasper has been fanatastic since he was brought back into the side, and as impressed as I am with Lee's recent performances I don't think he should be dropped to allow Lee in at all. But, to belittle the brilliant recent performances of a bowler just to back up your theory that he is a completely useless bowler and that Kasper is superior in every way is rather pathetic.

 

[Jono]

except that if you actually do end up watching flintoff, you might just realise that he has as good a defense as anyone else in the english side. no anyone who suggests that flintoff lacks technically is obviously out of their mind, flintoff lacks in term of temperament, even his failures in the series against SA were more often down to poor shots rather than poor technique.

I do recall you saying Flintoff's defense was far from the best in the side, and that though he had improved, it wasn't great. This was say... in June/July 2004.

Has his defence improved that much since then?

 

[chaminda_00]

how about looking at those 3 games where brett lee was a complete disgrace and got hammered all over the park by everyone?
.

I don't think everyone smashed him around the park it was just Afridi, Inzi and Razzaq in those three games. Most of that hitting was at the end of the match during happy hour when everyone gets smacked.

 

[tooextracool]

I do recall you saying Flintoff's defense was far from the best in the side, and that though he had improved, it wasn't great. This was say... in June/July 2004.

Has his defence improved that much since then?

nope, ive never made any such comment. ive maintained for a very long time that flintoff has a very good technique and i still say the same thing.
back in july 2004 i mentioned this " he has a sound technique...the best in the english side IMO. his problems always have been solely temperamental,"