English Ringers, mate!

[morgieb]

Whitlist Strauss & Prior should play for England, I think Kieswatter & Pietersen shouldn't. Morgan in particular ticks me off as if it was for Bosman, he wouldn't even be able to play in England, let alone for England. Would it feel right if someone like Pothas or ten Doeschate played for England?

 

[Jarquis]

Oi, Pothas is a good member. Leave hom out of it

 

[morgieb]

Nic Pothas TBH.

 

[Craig]

WTF? Kieswetter and KP should have full rights to play for England, since they do have English parentage and they did their time to qualify for England. Would you object if somebody moved to Australia at 16 with their family, took up cricket, became good enough to play Tests for Australia, and were good players as well? Of course you wouldn't.

 

[Jarquis]

You don't say!

 

[morgieb]

It feels as if they went over to England 'for the money' rather than 'for the fact that they wanted to play for England'. Pietersen in particular grew up wanting to play for South Africa but got forced out because he was white. Not overly sure on Kieswatter however.

 

[morgieb]

WTF? Kieswetter and KP should have full rights to play for England, since they do have English parentage and they did their time to qualify for England. Would you object if somebody moved to Australia at 16 with their family, took up cricket, became good enough to play Tests for Australia, and were good players as well? Of course you wouldn't.

Neither of them moved to England when they were 16. I'm still not 100% sure on the Kieswatter case, but Pietersen just seems to be 'in it for the money'.

And neither of them came with their family.

 

[Craig]

I don't think money plays a factor.

 

[L Trumper]

Neither of them moved to England when they were 16. I'm still not 100% sure on the Kieswatter case, but Pietersen just seems to be 'in it for the money'.

And neither of them came with their family.

Really ? For Money ? Even smith won't make that much of an accusation.

KP said countless times that he thought SA system is unfair and he had a chance to play in england so he tried. Consider anyone for that matter, if they had two shots, and thinks one of them is treating them unfair then they obviously chose the other. Its true in life too.

As far as Kieswetter considered he did play for U19 for SA. But he is reiterating his desire to play for england since then. He did live in this country for a year when he is around 11 I think, he spent his holidays in england since his childhood. If your mother is brit and father is SA and you were born in SA , and visiting England regularly, then he had right to play for ENG as much as SA.

Besides if they got british passport and completed the quals, then rules don't object them. Its not like they are just getting free pass to eng team either, they are topping the avg charts for seasons and grabbed the very first opportunity given to them. Its not like every saffer can come to england and play for english team. They had to perform.

 

[Goughy]

Opportunity, lifestyle, money, ancestry etc all play a role to differing degrees for each player and all are legit reasons. We are not seeing South Africans of English parentage going to Pakistan to play.

 

[Furball]

Besides if they got british passport and completed the quals, then rules don't object them. Its not like they are just getting free pass to eng team either, they are topping the avg charts for seasons and grabbed the very first opportunity given to them. Its not like every saffer can come to england and play for english team. They had to perform.

Correct, they're doing the hard yards in County Cricket and have British parentage. It's not like England are poaching young black Africans on the verge of the South African side, with no connection to England whatsover and giving them instant call ups.

 

[Furball]

Whitlist Strauss & Prior should play for England, I think Kieswatter & Pietersen shouldn't. Morgan in particular ticks me off as if it was for Bosman, he wouldn't even be able to play in England, let alone for England. Would it feel right if someone like Pothas or ten Doeschate played for England?

Rubbish.

The Irish have always had the right to live and work in the UK.

 

[Furball]

They aren't. They may appear superficially ignorant to those who do not fully understand them, but to those who do (ie, probably me and no-one else) they're not.

They're ignorant because they're proposed by someone who clearly has a very poor grasp of the politics and history of Anglo-Irish relations.

 

[Streetwise]

Besides if they got british passport and completed the quals, then rules don't object them. Its not like they are just getting free pass to eng team either, they are topping the avg charts for seasons and grabbed the very first opportunity given to them. Its not like every saffer can come to england and play for english team. They had to perform.

They only have to perform slightly better than the english so really most could go to England and play for the English team.

If you qualify for a team you qualify, end of story.

 

[Richard]

:

Brilliant, Richard souding like some sort of 'misuderstood' dicator

Not really, no.

 

[Richard]

Pietersen in particular grew up wanting to play for South Africa but got forced out because he was white.

Not really. He got forced-out because the powers that were at his province were ignoring his remarkable-quality batting and picking him only to bowl fingerspin.

A few years later a similar thing happened to the Cape Coloured Jean-Paul Duminy, in the full national side!

 

[Richard]

They're ignorant because they're proposed by someone who clearly has a very poor grasp of the politics and history of Anglo-Irish relations.

I may not know the ins and outs of everything, but I have a decent grasp of some basic Anglo-Irish relations history. More importantly, I also have a more than decent grasp of cricketing history, and political and cricket unity is not always one and the same.

 

[Pothas]

Not really, no.

Yeah you do, 'I did what was right and it is everyone elses fault that they don't understand.' Sounds like Blair on the Iraq war and I am sure many other more dictatorial leaders.

Would find it is incredibly arrogant if I did not like you

 

[Richard]

It's been demonstrated many times by people's posts on the issue that they don't understand fully either a) what my suggestions for cricket in the British (and Irish) Isles involve and b) how much I understand Anglo-Irish history.

If people disagree with my conclusions then, well, fair enough, but to pin ignorance on me because they do not understand what I am saying is poor form.

 

[Furball]

I may not know the ins and outs of everything, but I have a decent grasp of some basic Anglo-Irish relations history. More importantly, I also have a more than decent grasp of cricketing history, and political and cricket unity is not always one and the same.

The reason for cricket unity is because cricket, like most sports established in Ireland pre-partition, was run from Dublin, an arrangement that has continued post partition. Had the relevant bodies in cricket, hockey, rugby etc. in Northern Ireland formed their own associations in Belfast, we'd have 2 teams in Ireland.

Football's the one exception to the rule in Ireland, because football pre-partition was run by the Irish Football Association in Belfast. Those clubs in the Free State seceeded from the IFA and formed their own association in Dublin.