English Ringers, mate!

[four_or_six]

Kieswetter's accent certainly less yarpified than Trott's or KP's FWIW. Suppose it's because he came over here at a younger age.

Also I think I remember him saying he spent a lot of holidays over here growing up.

 

[Furball]

Kieswetter's accent certainly less yarpified than Trott's or KP's FWIW. Suppose it's because he came over here at a younger age.

There's a definite Scottishness to it.

 

[Zinzan]

Don't see how you can bump your gums about Kieswetter and be fine with Pietersen. Kieswetter finished his schooling in England and has only played First Class cricket in England - Pietersen on the other hand had already played First Class cricket for Natal before coming over to England at the age of 20.

Agreed, it does smack of 'cherry picking' to some extent.
How old was Pietersen when he moved to England anyways?

I suppose Vaughan is entitled to his opinion though. I know a mate of mine from the UK has been really cynical about the no of South African's in the team recently, especially those who played U19 cricket for SA, yet another British mate couldn't care less, so it's certainly appears to be an issue that divides opinion, making it difficult to know if Vaughan's stance is really just a case of sour grapes

 

[Richard]

How old was Pietersen when he moved to England anyways?

Almost exactly the same age as Trott (I think, can't quite remember how old Trott was) and a couple of years older than Kieswetter.

Difference seems to be that Kieswetter has spent a lot of time in the UK even as he was nominally resident in South Africa.

 

[Furball]

Almost exactly the same age as Trott (I think, can't quite remember how old Trott was) and a couple of years older than Kieswetter.

Difference seems to be that Kieswetter has spent a lot of time in the UK even as he was nominally resident in South Africa.

Trott was still playing FC cricket in South Africa though wasn't he?

 

[Richard]

Not sure, but unlike Pietersen, he was recognised as what he was and at least got to play for South Africa Under-19s.

 

[TT Boy]

Trott played three seasons domestically with Boland and Western Province in SuperSport. Signed off in style though, double pair against Natal and finished up never hitting a first class century in the Republic.

 

[Craig]

I believe after that he even had a spell playing for Otago, and there were attempts to try and get him to play for NZ.

 

[wpdavid]

I can't see why Vaughan is getting such a trashing on this thread - it's not unreasonable to raise the question about guys playing for England who have played at under19 level for another country. Perhaps he's being a little naive with his comment about '100% Englishmen', which may well be picked up by hte BNPers to refer to the Brit-Asians in the side, but that would be the extent of my criticism. I'm pretty sure they're not who he had in mind, as he explicitly mentioned the fact that Trott & KW had played for SA at junior level.

 

[Furball]

I can't see why Vaughan is getting such a trashing on this thread - it's not unreasonable to raise the question about guys playing for England who have played at under19 level for another country. Perhaps he's being a little naive with his comment about '100% Englishmen', which may well be picked up by hte BNPers to refer to the Brit-Asians in the side, but that would be the extent of my criticism. I'm pretty sure they're not who he had in mind, as he explicitly mentioned the fact that Trott & KW had played for SA at junior level.

Vaughan should just shut the **** up. He was quite happy to have Kevin Pietersen smashing runs in the 2005 Ashes.

 

[BoyBrumby]

I can't see why Vaughan is getting such a trashing on this thread - it's not unreasonable to raise the question about guys playing for England who have played at under19 level for another country. Perhaps he's being a little naive with his comment about '100% Englishmen', which may well be picked up by hte BNPers to refer to the Brit-Asians in the side, but that would be the extent of my criticism. I'm pretty sure they're not who he had in mind, as he explicitly mentioned the fact that Trott & KW had played for SA at junior level.

I think it's a fair question to raise, however he does rather leave himself open to accusations of double standards by treating his old teammate as a different case from Trott & Kieswetter. Given the noise he made at the time and since about not getting a fair crack of the whip because of the dreaded quotas, I think it's a fair guess Pietersen would've turned out for an SA age-group team had he been asked to do so. & I suppose it should be noted we had an Australio-Welsh-Papua New Guinuean as keeper for Mick's greatest triumph too. Looks a case of do as he says, not as he does a bit.

However, it is an issue that gives me pause for thought too; no one is doubting the right of any of our SA-raised players to play for us, but, without wishing to seem too much of the little Englander, having so many in our team (not to mention the odd Irishman, Dane & Australian) does change the character of our team. Cricket's our national summer sport and it's a cause for concern that foreign-reared players seem to have so much the whip hand over the Albion natives.

 

[Goughy]

However, it is an issue that gives me pause for thought too; no one is doubting the right of any of our SA-raised players to play for us, but, without wishing to seem too much of the little Englander, having so many in our team (not to mention the odd Irishman, Dane & Australian) does change the character of our team. Cricket's our national summer sport and it's a cause for concern that foreign-reared players seem to have so much the whip hand over the Albion natives.

Yeah, there is nothing wrong with all these guys playing for England. Just the same that there is nothing wrong for wishing the local boys and the local system could produce a deep well of talent.

 

[Craig]

So what is Vaughan doing about it? Is he running clinics etc., or is he just a commentator who is having a bitch to the media?

 

[Jungle Jumbo]

So what is Vaughan doing about it? Is he running clinics etc., or is he just a commentator who is having a bitch to the media?

Both actually.

 

[Langeveldt]

Doesn't it grate England fans that the team is full of foreigners though? I'm not sure I could support South Africa if people like Mitchell Johnson and Michael Clarke rocked up for example..

 

[Langeveldt]

He was only about 15/16 when he moved over here, wasn't he? At least, I heard he went to that private school in Somerset that quite a few cricketers come from, name escapes me.

Millfield.. Played against him a few years back.. His girlfriend at the time was mates with my girlfriend at the time

 

[Richard]

Doesn't it grate England fans that the team is full of foreigners though? I'm not sure I could support South Africa if people like Mitchell Johnson and Michael Clarke rocked up for example..

Welcome back. And, with the current regulations, no. It'd grate if one side followed one set of regulations and another followed another.

What grates to some extent with me is the extent to which people are allowed to change nationality on a whim. For me, it should be something that takes a long time to do.

 

[Langeveldt]

Welcome back. And, with the current regulations, no. It'd grate if one side followed one set of regulations and another followed another.

What grates to some extent with me is the extent to which people are allowed to change nationality on a whim. For me, it should be something that takes a long time to do.

This.. I've been in SA for about as long as KP has been in England for, possibly longer.. If I was good enough to play for SA, I still don't think I deserve the right to.. Makes a mockery of playing for your country, surely

 

[GIMH]

English mother etc etc etc

 

[BoyBrumby]

I wouldn't go so far as to say it grates, but it could become an issue down the line if native poms become a minority in the side.

I mean, due to the nature of the Australian population & its ties to the UK I bet it'd be possible to select a pretty decent Aussie Rules team made up of UK citizens who have British parents or who moved to Oz as youngsters. However it'd be a nonsense to say these blokes are English in the same way as someone who's grown up here is. Aussie Rules is played here (v much a minority concern) but if one was selecting a team on merit you'd obviously go with blokes like Will Thursfield, who was born in England but who moved down under at a v early age. Technically British, but (I'm sure) Australian in upbringing and outlook. The English-raised players wouldn't get a look in.

For something similar to happen to our cricket side might be an unlikely worst case scenario, but with more and more foreign-raised players coming in it's a worrying possibility.