English Ringers, mate!

[GIMH]

Same with the Scots.

Actually the England and Wales team has always been the British Isles team in reality.

Bloody hell, it's a Richard dupe

 

[Furball]

Kieswetter and Pietersen each have a British parent I believe (listening to Kieswetter speak today on SSN, I wouldn't be suprised if one of his parents is Scottish), Kieswetter has only played First Class cricket in England, and Pietersen barely played for Natal, both players had to do the hard slog on the county circuit for 4 years to qualify to be eligible for England.

Yeah, fair enough both of them grew up in South Africa but there's no reason why either of them shouldn't play for England. It's not like England have poached a hot talent and played them instantly, English cricket has invested a fair bit in developing both players (bear in mind Pietersen when he played in South Africa was regarded as an offspinner who could slog a bit). Pietersen has now lived in England for a third of his life, it's not like he came here yesterday.

 

[Jarquis]

Kieswetter and Pietersen each have a British parent I believe (listening to Kieswetter speak today on SSN, I wouldn't be suprised if one of his parents is Scottish), Kieswetter has only played First Class cricket in England, and Pietersen barely played for Natal, both players had to do the hard slog on the county circuit for 4 years to qualify to be eligible for England.

Bang on. His mum.

Edit : Heh. Lucky I used a full stop

 

[GIMH]

Yeah, totally agree. At the risk of receiving broken_record.jpg, if Pietersen was a footballer he'd have been eligible for England from birth, same with Trott. Not sure on Kieswetter as it seems he has a Scottish parent (so would have been eligible to play summer friendlies for his whole career) but it's similar.

And as for Strauss and Prior, anyone who claims they shouldn't be allowed in the England team should go join the BNP or something

Morgan, mmmm. That actually is a bit dodgier than the 'Saffas' for mine...but it is largely English money that's funded his development (I assume) so I'll live with it

 

[Furball]

Yeah, totally agree. At the risk of receiving broken_record.jpg, if Pietersen was a footballer he'd have been eligible for England from birth, same with Trott. Not sure on Kieswetter as it seems he has a Scottish parent (so would have been eligible to play summer friendlies for his whole career) but it's similar.

And as for Strauss and Prior, anyone who claims they shouldn't be allowed in the England team should go join the BNP or something

Morgan, mmmm. That actually is a bit dodgier than the 'Saffas' for mine...but it is largely English money that's funded his development (I assume) so I'll live with it

The thing that really bugs me about Morgan is that England could call him up weeks after he'd helped Ireland qualify for the World Cup - bear in mind Ireland's games against the better associates had official ODI status, just the same as the World Cup Final - yet if Morgan had bombed in the T20 World Cup and been dropped from the England side, he'd have to wait 4 years to play again for Ireland.

Associate players who have been called up by full members IMO should always be eligible for their home nation, (ie if England had decided at any point in the last 6 months that Morgan was the new Joyce he could have played for Ireland in the T20 qualifiers) and I wouldn't be opposed to someone like Morgan choosing to play for England in Tests but Ireland in ODIs.

 

[Furball]

Bang on. His mum.

Edit : Heh. Lucky I used a full stop

Heh.

Kieswetter sounds as much Scottish as he does South African tbh.

 

[four_or_six]

Heh.

Kieswetter sounds as much Scottish as he does South African tbh.

He was only about 15/16 when he moved over here, wasn't he? At least, I heard he went to that private school in Somerset that quite a few cricketers come from, name escapes me.

 

[Craig]

If you count Strauss as a Saffer then you have to count Andrew Symonds as English.

Yeah in my opinion that Strauss is as English as Steve Waugh is Australian. I also don't see how Prior can be a Saffer when he has lived in England for the most of his life. And to extend it further, Mathew Sinclair and Scott Styris are Australian.

 

[Neil Pickup]

He was only about 15/16 when he moved over here, wasn't he? At least, I heard he went to that private school in Somerset that quite a few cricketers come from, name escapes me.

Millfield? If not, it'll be King's, Queen's or Taunton. Otherwise Downside is closeish, as are Bryanston, Blundell's and Bruton.

 

[Craig]

It's not true ftr, hence the country's called the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Irish players turning out for England does huge amounts of damage to Irish cricket, and since they're currently the most promising Associate nation, holds back the spread of cricket in general. KP and Kieswetter throwing their lot in with England for social or economic reasons might not sit as easy with people with ridiculous, ignorant and generally really stupid ideas about Ireland (like Richard). But at least it doesn't do a great deal of harm.

The thing that really bugs me about Morgan is that England could call him up weeks after he'd helped Ireland qualify for the World Cup - bear in mind Ireland's games against the better associates had official ODI status, just the same as the World Cup Final - yet if Morgan had bombed in the T20 World Cup and been dropped from the England side, he'd have to wait 4 years to play again for Ireland.

Associate players who have been called up by full members IMO should always be eligible for their home nation, (ie if England had decided at any point in the last 6 months that Morgan was the new Joyce he could have played for Ireland in the T20 qualifiers) and I wouldn't be opposed to someone like Morgan choosing to play for England in Tests but Ireland in ODIs.

I was actually peeved off that Dirk Nannes could play for Holland at the T20 WC and then a month later is playing for Australia, and I thought it wasn't fair on Holland, but I think it was Brumby who said that if Nannes could only play for Holland, then he wouldn't of played for them in the first place.

I know about the rules in England, but what about in other countries? I know Nash was picked for the WI fairly soon after he made the move, so if somebody like RTD decided to throw his lot in with South Africa again, could he get picked straight away (Assuming there is a spot open, good enough etc.)?

 

[Richard]

And because I presume that's where you've lived all your life? I don't consider myself an 'England supporter' per se - I'm English and I'm into cricket, so I don't feel I really have any choice in the matter. It isn't practical for me to decide to start supporting, say, New Zealand. County allegiance is another matter, of course.

Personally, I really don't think it is. I think allegiance is the same regardless of how far up you go, so long as geographical areas (be they counties or countries) are under consideration. Some geographical areas have higher status than others (in international terms it's like Australia or Afghanistan; in county terms, Kent or Buckinghamshire; in state terms, Queensland or ACT). And in terms of clubs, there is no point where one becomes another - clubs have a catchment area rather than territory, and thus allegiance to a club is looser still than allegiance to a geographical area.

I have indeed lived in the UK all my life (consider myself more Welsh than English but neither Welsh nor English are nationalities AFAIC - my nationality is British) but that has little to do with which cricket team I support. I've said before now that sometimes I feel like I support South Africa more than England, purely because I've gained - through the way my cricket induction has gone - almost as much familiarity with them as England. If I ever decide for certain that I support South Africa first and England second, that'll be perfectly practical. I don't consider myself compelled to support anyone - I'm a supporter of whoever my allegiance is to, so thus I'm an England supporter.

You make a good point about the players used in the 1980s and early 90s - I think someone has worked out that one team from that period had 6 or 7 players born outside the UK - but the West Indian contingent were a different case, in that they'd all come here as children. It's not as if Devon Malcolm was playing for Jamaica while waiting to qualify for England. And there was some sympathy for Lamb and the Smith brothers in as much as they couldn't play Tests for the country of their birth.

Malcolm was old enough when he came over to be 21 before he appeared in county cricket, and still speak with a strong Jamaican accent. Small was only just young enough when he came over to qualify without any residence requirements.

And even now, there's only Trott, Pietersen and, possibly, Kieswetter who have made their own choices to come and play for England instead of South Africa. I certainly don't foresee these types outnumbering those who received their cricketing upbringing in the UK.

 

[Richard]

Your ideas about Ireland are ignorant.

They aren't. They may appear superficially ignorant to those who do not fully understand them, but to those who do (ie, probably me and no-one else) they're not.

 

[BoyBrumby]

I was actually peeved off that Dirk Nannes could play for Holland at the T20 WC and then a month later is playing for Australia, and I thought it wasn't fair on Holland, but I think it was Brumby who said that if Nannes could only play for Holland, then he wouldn't of played for them in the first place.

I know about the rules in England, but what about in other countries? I know Nash was picked for the WI fairly soon after he made the move, so if somebody like RTD decided to throw his lot in with South Africa again, could he get picked straight away (Assuming there is a spot open, good enough etc.)?

Yup, as Netherlands is an associate & RTD is SA-born he could reyarpify tomorrow if picked.

WRT qualification, we insist on 4-year residence for overseas-born British subjects which isn't actually required by the ICC, who only require being born in or a national of a country. As Nash was a Jamaican citizen from birth thanks to his folks he was instantly eligible.

 

[Craig]

Which country Kieswetter living in when he played for South Africa in the same u19 WC as vic othdox?

 

[BoyBrumby]

Which country Kieswetter living in when he played for South Africa in the same u19 WC as vic othdox?

I don't know for certain, but I'd guess SA and if he wasn't he obviously wasn't yet committed to the English cause even if he was a resident.

 

[Jarquis]

Millfield? If not, it'll be King's, Queen's or Taunton. Otherwise Downside is closeish, as are Bryanston, Blundell's and Bruton.

Was Millfield.

 

[TT Boy]

He was only about 15/16 when he moved over here, wasn't he? At least, I heard he went to that private school in Somerset that quite a few cricketers come from, name escapes me.

No. Kieswetter went to Bishops and was representing Bishops/Western Province when he represented South Africa U19. Kieswetter was then poached by Millfield. The school had noticed Kieswetter from a cricketing tour of the Republic and offered him the chance to do his A-Levels at the school.

 

[TT Boy]

Which country Kieswetter living in when he played for South Africa in the same u19 WC as vic othdox?

South Africa. To get selected for SA U19 you usually have to play in the Coca-Cola Khaya Majola week. Kieswetter represented Western Province in that tournament.

Cricinfo - Khaya Majola Coca-Cola Week. 2005-06 - Day 5 Results

 

[Pothas]

They aren't. They may appear superficially ignorant to those who do not fully understand them, but to those who do (ie, probably me and no one else) they're not.

:

Brilliant, Richard souding like some sort of 'misuderstood' dicator

As other have mentioned I have a much bigger problem with Morgan and other Irish players playing for England than the South Africans, certainly got no problem with Kieswetter playing for us.

 

[marc71178]

Associate players who have been called up by full members IMO should always be eligible for their home nation, (ie if England had decided at any point in the last 6 months that Morgan was the new Joyce he could have played for Ireland in the T20 qualifiers) and I wouldn't be opposed to someone like Morgan choosing to play for England in Tests but Ireland in ODIs.

Could never happen - who would have call on him if the sides were scheduled to play at the same time?