English off-season 13/14

[Woodster]

For their target audience I think he will - he's produced enough pyrotechnics to have huge appeal to the hit and giggle brigade, and arouse the curiosity of the rest of us

Quite possibly Fred. I still don't personally think the hype justified the signing, but as T20 players go I'm sure he'll be a decent enough signing. I'd rather watch Kane bat myself in CC cricket.

 

[Pothas]

I do like this idea, and have mentioned it for a while. I see no reason to go against Read or Foster if you're going down that route. Wallace is a fine 'keeper, but I don't think they'll go for him.

Prior is a perfectly fine keeper though, he was dropped because of his batting. No way England are going to select a specialist 'keeper' anyway, Buttler is the only rival for Prior I would say.

Love that everyone is on the Moeen bandwagon though.

 

[fredfertang]

Quite possibly Fred. I still don't personally think the hype justified the signing, but as T20 players go I'm sure he'll be a decent enough signing. I'd rather watch Kane bat myself in CC cricket.

I'm with you 100% on that one

 

[Prince EWS]

Prior is a perfectly fine keeper though, he was dropped because of his batting.

I think they might have held onto him if it was just his batting and backed him to force his way out of his rut. He completely and utterly lost the plot with the gloves in Perth though which suggested he was mentally shot and couldn't be carried anymore.

 

[Woodster]

Prior is a perfectly fine keeper though, he was dropped because of his batting. No way England are going to select a specialist 'keeper' anyway, Buttler is the only rival for Prior I would say.

Love that everyone is on the Moeen bandwagon though.

The debate was if England did select Moeen at six and Stokes at seven it would give an opportunity for us to select a specialist keeper at eight. So assuming this did happen who would you have at eight ? Someone who's keeping is going to be stronger than his batting or not ?

 

[Pothas]

I think they might have held onto him if it was just his batting and backed him to force his way out of his rut. He completely and utterly lost the plot with the gloves in Perth though which suggested he was mentally shot and couldn't be carried anymore.

Yeah that might be true, the batting was the fundamental issue though without doubt.

 

[Neil Pickup]

The debate was if England did select Moeen at six and Stokes at seven it would give an opportunity for us to select a specialist keeper at eight. So assuming this did happen who would you have at eight ? Someone who's keeping is going to be stronger than his batting or not ?

I'd pick the best all-round keeper/bat option whether he was batting seven or eight.

 

[Prince EWS]

Yeah that might be true, the batting was the fundamental issue though without doubt.

The poor batting form affecting his keeping, which got him out of the side, IMO. I think he would've played all five Tests if the keeping didn't go as well.

 

[Spikey]

The debate was if England did select Moeen at six and Stokes at seven it would give an opportunity for us to select a specialist keeper at eight. So assuming this did happen who would you have at eight ? Someone who's keeping is going to be stronger than his batting or not ?

leave the specialist keeper for T20

 

[Pothas]

The debate was if England did select Moeen at six and Stokes at seven it would give an opportunity for us to select a specialist keeper at eight. So assuming this did happen who would you have at eight ? Someone who's keeping is going to be stronger than his batting or not ?

I would still be looking for a strong batsman, even if that means batting Stokes at 8. England's batting has been so bad the last couple of years that I don't think we can afford the luxury of playing a pure keeper.

Way I see the keeping situation is that if Prior performs for Sussex at the start of the season then he deserves another go. If he does not then I would be favouring Buttler, but again dependent on county form.

 

[theegyptian]

Not in favour of bringing in a Foster or Read to bat 8. There are going to be 4 or 5 of the top 7 who aren't proven at international level and/or are batting a spot or two too high. It's a bit of a false number 8 position in that regard. Read especially is a bit past it now and Foster is no spring chicken and neither has shown great form with the bat recently.

Stokes and Ali aren't top 6 batsmen currently. They aren't good enough to be selected on their batting alone. Put stokes at 6 with a keeper at 7 and the batting is too light; put Stokes at 8 as one of a four man attack and the bowling is too light.

They are both selected because imo they are close to being England's (limited but) best options as bowlers (Stokes as third seamer; Ali as spinner). Neither is a bits and pieces cricketer in that regard which is a bit what Borthwick is at present. Both are frontline batsmen and bowlers for their counties.

They bat 6 and 7 together with the keeper at 8 because Prior/Buttler are more used to batting with the tail and aggresively whilst Stokes and Ali are both used to batting in the top 3 or 4 for their counties. Also it probably won't be a long time solution so they need to decide if Ali or Stokes are good enough to bat in the top 6 in the future.

The keeping is batting one spot lower but the batting lineup is still weaker than the team that started the ashes.

Having Moeen as the only spinner looks weak but we aren't going to beat India or Sri Lanka at home with spin. Fact is that Moeen isn't a great spinner but I wouldn't say with any conviction that there were any clearly better than him come the start of the season. Monty yes maybe but he's struggled with injuries and form for a while. Kerrigan? Well that went well. Rayner? Borthwick?




.

 

[grecian]

Prior is a perfectly fine keeper though, he was dropped because of his batting. No way England are going to select a specialist 'keeper' anyway, Buttler is the only rival for Prior I would say.

Love that everyone is on the Moeen bandwagon though.

Well my thoughts as I've blathered on about too much, is that there should be open minds, and if Foster and Read are scoring runs, and still being exemplary with the gloves, early season then I think they should be considered.

I'm calling it the "Beardwagon" tbh. All aboard and give it a tug.

 

[fredfertang]

Not in favour of bringing in a Foster or Read to bat 8. There are going to be 4 or 5 of the top 7 who aren't proven at international level and/or are batting a spot or two too high. It's a bit of a false number 8 position in that regard. Read especially is a bit past it now and Foster is no spring chicken.

Quite - both have proved they can't be relied upon to play big innings at Test level and to pick them now, huge admiration that I have for Foster's glovework, would be akin to plucking Andrew Flintoff from retirement - I've yet to be convinced by Buttler, but he might well prove to be a Test class keeper/batsman, so we might as well find out sooner rather than later

 

[fredfertang]

On a separate note I hope that Steven Finn has been taking a long hard look at what has happened to Mitchell Johnson these last four months, and draws some inspiration from it

 

[grecian]

Quite - both have proved they can't be relied upon to play big innings at Test level and to pick them now, huge admiration that I have for Foster's glovework, would be akin to plucking Andrew Flintoff from retirement - I've yet to be convinced by Buttler, but he might well prove to be a Test class keeper/batsman, so we might as well find out sooner rather than later

Yes, but they can be relied on catching the ****ing ball, something England have been utterly risible at for awhile now, and that's seeping into the entire teams catching and confidence IMHO.

The Freddy comparison seems a bit specious too, Foster and Read have not retired and are still playing First-class cricket well.

I love Jos, but I'd be perfectly happy for him to play as 'keeper in the championship for a good wedge of the season and hope his glovework gets better. Even if it's playing for a poor County team.

 

[Woodster]

Yes, I'm with Grecian on this. I get the impression people think that if you pick a specialist keeper he is no better with the stick than Devon Malcolm! I would be perfectly happy with a batsman such as Foster or Read strolling out at number eight. I don't think you can look to pick a player whose strongest discipline is batting and playing them at number eight because you don't think the seven above him are good enough.

Whether you stick with Prior is another point and not one I'd be averse to, but we were working along the lines of England were not going to stick with Prior.

 

[Pothas]

Were we? Thought we were just going on the basis of Moeen and Stokes playing.

 

[Woodster]

Were we? Thought we were just going on the basis of Moeen and Stokes playing.

We were saying Moeen was selected at six and Stokes at seven, I was presuming Prior may not have been an option for number eight, surely if he was playing he'd bat higher than at least one of those ?

 

[Pothas]

There is nothing stopping all 3 of those players playing though, you can sort of the order out later.

 

[Woodster]

Yes of course you can, but that wasn't the question. Never mind.

So, whether you would or wouldn't pick a batsman that can keep or the other way round, who do we think is the best pure gloveman in the country ?