England players and selection discussion thread

[LangleyburyCCPlayee]

Pak vs Eng - Brydon Carse in England Test squad for Pakistan, Jack Leach recalled | ESPNcricinfo

Squad picked for Pakistan. I know Pakistan have their problems right now, but the seam bowling battery is far from convincing for Pakistan with no Wood and Anderson/Robinson having been binned in one form or another compared to two years ago. That we are playing Pakistan and NZ, two years after touring there is another bugbear I have. How come we aren't playing Bangladesh or South Africa? Two teams we haven't now toured for some time, especially the former.

I make it that the Covid year in 2020 was the last year we didn’t play a Test series against New Zealand either home or away lol, we played South Africa the same year they toured us, but it is a shame that we don’t seem to bother with Bangladesh, they beat us last time we went there and have only got better since. I’ve said my piece on Jimmy not being there in Pakistan, but at least we knew that he would be riding off into the sunset eventually, that Robinson has been frozen out of the side is a real shame as he’s a terrific bowler, I know county averages mean **** all to Baz and Stokes, but it must rankle that they picked Hull over him (particularly as he’s not too shabby in the ol’ release point stakes!). Carse does seem a strange one, I get that he’s quick (although we’ve seen with so many English fast bowlers that they either break down or become slower) and can bat, but he’s never especially impressed me and @mackembhoy’s report on him doesn’t fill me with confidence even if he’s bound to be rusty

 

[LangleyburyCCPlayee]

Lawrence gone, nobody can be too surprised or disappointed at that, but it begs the question, what happens if one of our openers falls down again? Stokes did it against the Windies, but would he be up for it for more than a single innings?

 

[LangleyburyCCPlayee]

Woakes will have to hope the pitches in Pakistan have a green tinge, Pakistan are hilarious, but I don’t think even they’d sabotage themselves by preparing a pitch tailor-made for Woakes!

 

[GIMH]

Watched all of Robinson's bowling yesterday. Bowled 9 overs straight to start with, his figures really didn't do him justice. Unadkat picked up the wickets but Ollie was causing all the problems and had 3 good lbw shouts turned down.

Seems like he'll never play for England again, and whilst he's probably not helped himself some of the time, surely the coaching staff need to take some ownership of it. A real waste because there's no better bowler than him in that squad.

How is it anyone’s fault but his own?

 

[Third_Man]

Lawrence gone, nobody can be too surprised or disappointed at that, but it begs the question, what happens if one of our openers falls down again? Stokes did it against the Windies, but would he be up for it for more than a single innings?

fly someone else in, if need be

 

[LangleyburyCCPlayee]

fly someone else in, if need be

Who’s next cab off the rank? Seeing the lengths they went to not pick Lees/Burns/Sibley/Jennings, there aren’t any obvious choices

 

[Chin Music]

Who’s next cab off the rank? Seeing the lengths they went to not pick Lees/Burns/Sibley/Jennings, there aren’t any obvious choices

Surely there is a case of assessing talent with batsmen in the same way as they do bowlers if they are not doing that already? Look at the basic game rather than cold, hard stats?

 

[Third_Man]

Who’s next cab off the rank? Seeing the lengths they went to not pick Lees/Burns/Sibley/Jennings, there aren’t any obvious choices

can't second guess who Stokes has been watching on twitter. McKinney, Jacks, Livingstone.... Moeen?

 

[LangleyburyCCPlayee]

Surely there is a case of assessing talent with batsmen in the same way as they do bowlers if they are not doing that already? Look at the basic game rather than cold, hard stats?

I don’t think so, bowlers can produce the odd magic ball that’ll get the best of them out even if they are very raw (not to mention that spinners are on a hiding to nothing really in England), but you won’t get very far as a batter if you can only produce the odd shot here and there, to an extent (Crawley perhaps an exception), I think you still need to do the hard yards to prove yourself if you are a batter

 

[LangleyburyCCPlayee]

can't second guess who Stokes has been watching on twitter. McKinney, Jacks, Livingstone.... Moeen?

Plot twist: Will Jacks ends up going, but as a specialist spinner
Rob Yates and Ben McKinney opened for the Lions, they’ve been in decent form and can score at a decent lick, they must be close (likewise Singh Dale and Zaman Akhter can’t be a million miles away from a call-up, seeing as they like to go for relatively left-field picks, I’m a tad surprised Carse got the nod ahead of them)

 

[kevinw]

How is it anyone’s fault but his own?

He is a moron, but his stepdad is his current coach and was part of the England set up, so surely there is nobody better to try to get Robinson back on track? Get him fit and on form and he's our best bowler.

 

[kevinw]

He got picked for the training camp based on Stokes watching clips of him on Twitter. (I'm not making this up.)

Archie Vaughan must be upset to have missed out on selection.

 

[Chin Music]

I don’t think so, bowlers can produce the odd magic ball that’ll get the best of them out even if they are very raw (not to mention that spinners are on a hiding to nothing really in England), but you won’t get very far as a batter if you can only produce the odd shot here and there, to an extent (Crawley perhaps an exception), I think you still need to do the hard yards to prove yourself if you are a batter

I am more thinking of the Duncan Fletcher identification of Michael Vaughan. A highly talented player who had a moderate first class record at the time of his selection. Perhaps such a player simply doesn’t exist at the moment. I am still befuddled that Lawrence was considered the next in line prior to the Sri Lanka series. Respectable player as a middle order squad man, but to be honest, there has to be better if England are really going to kick on.

 

[LangleyburyCCPlayee]

I am more thinking of the Duncan Fletcher identification of Michael Vaughan. A highly talented player who had a moderate first class record at the time of his selection. Perhaps such a player simply doesn’t exist at the moment. I am still befuddled that Lawrence was considered the next in line prior to the Sri Lanka series. Respectable player as a middle order squad man, but to be honest, there has to be better if England are really going to kick on.

Think the closest thing you’ll have to that is guys like Crawley being picked and persisted with because of his aggressive nature despite a pretty poor first-class record (his overall FC average is only a tick over his Test average!) but I do think the really left-field picks will mainly be the bowlers. Was there any evidence to suggest Pope would be a successful Test level #3, or was it just a hunch (and a lack of alternatives)?

 

[Chubb]

England shafted Lawrence so they can discard him and pick the posh boys again, good luck jazzers.

 

[govinda indian fan]

Woakes will have to hope the pitches in Pakistan have a green tinge, Pakistan are hilarious, but I don’t think even they’d sabotage themselves by preparing a pitch tailor-made for Woakes!

Green pitches are only way for pakistan bowlers to be effective on any another pitch they struggle

 

[Chin Music]

Think the closest thing you’ll have to that is guys like Crawley being picked and persisted with because of his aggressive nature despite a pretty poor first-class record (his overall FC average is only a tick over his Test average!) but I do think the really left-field picks will mainly be the bowlers. Was there any evidence to suggest Pope would be a successful Test level #3, or was it just a hunch (and a lack of alternatives)?

Crawley has obviously lifted his game in the last couple of years, but like Duckett and Pope, their game management leaves me baffled at times. They are no longer new kids on the block, and with him and Pope, they have gone long past the stage where they look like rabbits in the headlights. However, I still have a forlornly hope that they could be a tad more consistent than they are. Pope's issues are defensive of course and they aren't of a level that you would expect of a test number 3, despite the fact that his number there are still reasonably good even if boosted by the big double ton v Ireland.

 

[GIMH]

Crawley was pretty consistent for 18 months prior to the Windies series in fairness

 

[Third_Man]

England shafted Lawrence so they can discard him and pick the posh boys again, good luck jazzers.

Not sure you know Ben Stokes well.

 

[Third_Man]

Archie Vaughan must be upset to have missed out on selection.

Agreed. He was the first name in wrote on my earlier post but changed it to Jacks, Moeen and McKinney.

But he'll be off to Yorkshire or Surrey in due course.