England can beat India "every day of week": Gough

[Jarquis]

That's assuming England don't decide to just sit on Zaheer and pumell whatever rubbish is masquerading as India's attack.

Also making the massive assumption that Zaheer's fit.

 

[silentstriker]

Also making the massive assumption that Zaheer's fit.

Yes, of course we're talking about full strength.

England certainly the favorites in that case.

 

[Bun]

Can't be worse than facing Dale Steyn on a lively pitch. Impossible. Just out of interest, how many matches has Tremlett played ? Just wondering.

Just enough for him to be considered an all time great by success starved fans here.

 

[Jarquis]

Swann is certainly bowling much better than Harbhajan but it's a wash at best if you are looking at head to head (e.g, Swann vs Indian batting and Bhajji vs English batting).

Anderson would be compared to Zaheer. The second and third fast bowler are certainly better for England, no doubt about that.

Yeah, fair comment. While Swann outbowled Bhaji on his debut, I don't think the averages reflected that due to the difference in batting quality.
Though I don't think you're giving the current England batting full credit, whether the difference between the two side's batting is larger than the difference between the two spinners is another debate.

 

[Furball]

Just enough for him to be considered an all time great by success starved fans here.

What the **** are you on about?

 

[Blaze 18]

It's not being argumentative, I was being pedantic. You were wrong and 2 people called you out on it. get over it.

There's no technically about it, you did beat Australia 2-0. Whether you should've... meh.

You were just being stupid, actually. I would love to know what I was wrong about - the fact that India got two incorrect decisions as opposed to one ?

 

[Prince EWS]

Meh, it frustrates me when people don't reply to what I say, so I make a concentrated effort to reply to what they say themselves.
Rather be a pedant than a hypocrite.

You're so easy to get sidetracked though. People do it to you all the time. They see you've probably got them beat on the actual point you were making, so they engage you in a separate, tedious debate about something pointless, so you forget about what you were saying and focus on something pedantic and inconsequential which they don't care about being proven wrong regarding. And I know you don't really give a ****, but if you stuck to your guns more and argued what you actually started arguing more often for longer, you'd be a gun poster.

 

[Turbinator]

English fans getting a bit ahead of themselves here. Will be sure to bump this thread next summer.

 

[Furball]

You were just being stupid, actually. I would love to know what I was wrong about - the fact that India got two incorrect decisions as opposed to one ?

You lose the right to bitch about incorrect umpiring decisions when your board refuses to implement UDRS.

 

[Hit Wicket]

Just enough for him to be considered an all time great by success starved fans here.

Used to think it was just the English media, but should have known better. The average fan appears as delusional.

 

[Jarquis]

You were just being stupid, actually. I would love to know what I was wrong about - the fact that India got two incorrect decisions as opposed to one ?

No, the fact that England were 1 wicket from losing 3-1 was ridiculously incorrect.

 

[dhillon28]

Swann is an overrated spinner, he's made his name off the back of playing pakistan (who fix matches), bangaldesh, windies and south africa on turners (in one match where paul harris even took a bagful of wickets showing the state of the wickets). I think aus have showed that unless there is turn on offer, swann is at best is a containing bowler, and if your on form, you can pummel him at over 5rpo.

also the guy has barely played for two years. when ajit agarkar came on to the scene he had a better performances as an allrounder than even the great shaun pollock. let him show he has class against all opposition over a long period of time.

also i strongly believe that monty was a better player when he first came than what swann is now. monty proved himself against far better batsmen than swann did e.g. (aussies 06, india 06, pakistan 06) these teams contained some of the best batsmen to have ever played spin bowling unlike marcus north, azhar ali, imran farhat etc.

 

[Jarquis]

You're so easy to get sidetracked though. People do it to you all the time. They see you've probably got them beat on the actual point you were making, so they engage you in a separate, tedious debate about something pointless, so you forget about what you were saying and focus on something pedantic and inconsequential which they don't care about being proven wrong regarding. And I know you don't really give a ****, but if you stuck to your guns more and argued what you actually started arguing more often for longer, you'd be a gun poster.

Yeah, I get why people do it. But when people just refuse to respond about the initial point there's not much I can do. I suppose I could just reiterate my point, stop the argument there and then or respond to the wrong, albeit entirely inconsequential stuff, they throw up instead

I'm guessing you suggest I do the former, even though it's a bid like bashing your head against a wall?

 

[Bun]

You lose the right to bitch about incorrect umpiring decisions when your board refuses to implement UDRS.

Ha ha, akin to saying one loses the right to crib about selections once they're made by selectors. Dire.

 

[Turbinator]

You lose the right to bitch about incorrect umpiring decisions when your board refuses to implement UDRS.

Exactly his point, he wasn't bitching. He was just pointing out the fact that we can win even when we receive more incorrect decisions than the opposing team. And the fact that the board made the decision and not him, yet you hold him up for it. Seriously, what are you on about?

 

[Blaze 18]

Pick as long as you want, the point is that Broad has had a sustained period of time where he's performed above the level of his career average. He's an improved bowler from his debut, he's shown that with results. Sree and Ishant haven't.

Okay, let us start nit-picking. In this "sustained period" you speak of, Broad averages sixty-seven against India (over a grand total of one match). What do I make of it ? Anyway, since you asked me to pick a period I wanted, I chose three years; and guess what - Ishant's and Broad's averages are very similar.

As far as I am concerned - Zaheer > Anderson (only just), Broad and Finn/Tremlett >> Ishant/Sreesanth and Graeme Swann < Harbhajan Singh - I don't necessarily rate Harbhajan Singh higher, but I expect the Indian batsmen to annihilate Swann. Not sure about the English batsmen doing the same to Singh.

As for England/SA, it's an interesting debate. Again going back to the original point by Prince EWS, England have no Petersen's, Prince's or Boucher's in their top 7 and then Broad and Swann is probably the best 8/9 combination in world cricket. That's offset by the prescence of Kallis/ABDV though.
As for conditions favourable for bowlers, England do play half their games in England.

Whatever the case, the batting line-ups are at least comparable, which means that if the Indian bowlers can limit the South African line-up to modest totals on lively tracks, then there is a very good chance that they would do the same against England.

 

[Furball]

Swann is an overrated spinner, he's made his name off the back of playing pakistan (who fix matches), bangaldesh, windies and south africa on turners (in one match where paul harris even took a bagful of wickets showing the state of the wickets). I think aus have showed that unless there is turn on offer, swann is at best is a containing bowler, and if your on form, you can pummel him at over 5rpo.

also the guy has barely played for two years. when ajit agarkar came on to the scene he had a better performances as an allrounder than even the great shaun pollock. let him show he has class against all opposition over a long period of time.

also i strongly believe that monty was a better player when he first came than what swann is now. monty proved himself against far better batsmen than swann did e.g. (aussies 06, india 06, pakistan 06) these teams contained some of the best batsmen to have ever played spin bowling unlike marcus north, azhar ali, imran farhat etc.

 

[Jarquis]

Swann is an overrated spinner, he's made his name off the back of playing pakistan (who fix matches), bangaldesh, windies and south africa on turners (in one match where paul harris even took a bagful of wickets showing the state of the wickets). I think aus have showed that unless there is turn on offer, swann is at best is a containing bowler, and if your on form, you can pummel him at over 5rpo.

also the guy has barely played for two years. when ajit agarkar came on to the scene he had a better performances as an allrounder than even the great shaun pollock. let him show he has class against all opposition over a long period of time.

also i strongly believe that monty was a better player when he first came than what swann is now. monty proved himself against far better batsmen than swann did e.g. (aussies 06, india 06, pakistan 06) these teams contained some of the best batsmen to have ever played spin bowling unlike marcus north, azhar ali, imran farhat etc.

He's played South Africa, India and Australia all away from home now. They're like the toughest series in world cricket right now.

 

[Blaze 18]

You lose the right to bitch about incorrect umpiring decisions when your board refuses to implement UDRS.

Good lord, where the **** did I bitch about incorrect umpiring ?

 

[dhillon28]

Good lord, where the **** did I bitch about incorrect umpiring ?

you talk about udrs as if it is has proved unequivocally that it has resolved all problems with umpiring. in fact udrs has created new problems that didnt previously exist. namely the use of the predictive element hawk eye that frequently judges not out batsmen as out and out batsmen as not out. udrs doesnt do anything to help disputed catches also. indians are hesitant to accept it as it is simply not reliable enough to moderate matches.