England (and Wales) gloom, doom and recriminations thread

[morgieb]

Who do England think their next gen quicks are?

Because out of the current ones:

* Anderson - turns 40 next year, how long can he keep going for?
* Broad - looking close to done
* Robinson - the one long-term banker even if he might lack wheels for certain conditions? (but can bowl decent offies + if there was one place that would be exploited, it's Australia.....)
* Wood - struggles in England, over 30 and can't bowl long spells
* Woakes - struggles away from England and is also over 30
* Archer - I genuinely think he may pack long-form cricket in entirely
* Stone - can he stay fit?
* Coverton - has fight but don't think he has enough tools to be a long-term option
* Curran - needs a lot of time to figure out his best role

For 2022 I think Anderson, Robinson and Wood/Woakes should be adequate but the longer-term picture is much murkier if Archer and Stone can't get back. Trouble is that it's difficult to tell who from county cricket is actually good and who would get exposed at the next level. Mahmood I guess is the most convincing?

 

[theegyptian]

Quite a lot of youngsters from 'humble beginnings' tend to end up at fee paying schools anyway on scholarships etc. State school cricket is non existent, club cricket patchy and the facilties these public/private schools have are very good.

I don't see why people are getting at Crawley specifically either. He showed with his 267 and some other knocks that there is a lot of natural talent there, and probably a higher potential than many of the other players we have tried. Sure he hasn't put it together and he averages 27 after 16 tests but that is no different from the rest of the batting bar Root.

 

[chris.hinton]

We need to see some changes *Again* at all levels. The Hundred is a flawed idea but it has nothing to do with this performance, We have no fight or bottle and systems we have in place should provide this in some way. Make things more competitive from club to test

 

[chris.hinton]

As for the Test team now, We dont have much coming through so we have to make changes but back some players

This cant happen in the 4th test due to covid etc but

Sibley, Burns, Malan, Root, Stokes, Pope, Foakes, Robinson, Broad, Parkinson, Anderson

But even that is not great. I would make Ben Stokes captain now and sack Root

 

[Nintendo]

As for the Test team now, We dont have much coming through so we have to make changes but back some players

This cant happen in the 4th test due to covid etc but

Sibley, Burns, Malan, Root, Stokes, Pope, Foakes, Robinson, Broad, Parkinson, Anderson

But even that is not great. I would make Ben Stokes captain now and sack Root

Thats frankly horrible treatment of leach for doing nothing wrong, getting dropped, then bought back, then dropped again after bowling well in 3 tests span is not the way to go.

 

[theegyptian]

Hard to see Silverwood keeping his job. Of him and Root he is the more expendable obviously given the lack of alternatives available for captain. Ideally you'd replace Root too but those options are limited, or non existent.

Judging Silverwood's reign against history and given the strength of the squad it actually hasn't been all terrible. Ended terribly, and the lack of improvement in the batsman are significants blots against his record. Won 4 test series in a row (SA away, Windies home, Pakistan home, Sri Lanka away) since then lost 4(india home and away, NZ home, Aus away) in a row.

ODI/T20 teams have kept up the momentum generally. Impressive win over Pakistan with b squad. Lost out in World t20s semifinal but heavily toss dependent, and injuries played a part. How much of this was Silverwood or was it just keeping the momentum up in the post Bayliss era.

I haven't found Ashley Giles very impressive whenever he has spoken on issues concerning English cricket. Just seems bland and without any overarching vision or particular beliefs on improving the English game in his job as director of cricket, and happy keeping the status quo. Silverwood was his choice, and he also got rid of the selectors role putting more importance on Silverwood's role which ultimately haven't gone that well. Probably should get the sack too.

 

[ImpatientLime]

re the white ball side, can't help but feel that morgan basically outranks silverwood there and that is the reason they have maintained their momentum. a guy england most certainly want to keep at the ecb in some way once he calls it a day.

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

Who do England think their next gen quicks are?

Because out of the current ones:

* Anderson - turns 40 next year, how long can he keep going for?
* Broad - looking close to done
* Robinson - the one long-term banker even if he might lack wheels for certain conditions? (but can bowl decent offies + if there was one place that would be exploited, it's Australia.....)
* Wood - struggles in England, over 30 and can't bowl long spells
* Woakes - struggles away from England and is also over 30
* Archer - I genuinely think he may pack long-form cricket in entirely
* Stone - can he stay fit?
* Coverton - has fight but don't think he has enough tools to be a long-term option
* Curran - needs a lot of time to figure out his best role

For 2022 I think Anderson, Robinson and Wood/Woakes should be adequate but the longer-term picture is much murkier if Archer and Stone can't get back. Trouble is that it's difficult to tell who from county cricket is actually good and who would get exposed at the next level. Mahmood I guess is the most convincing?

Darren Stevens

 

[theegyptian]

The only slight mitigating circumstances that England could point to regarding their performances in recent times would be covid. I think England have played 15 away tests since Australia last played an away test. Barring India I don't think anyone else has had the kind of schedule England have had in the timeframe. Inevitably been stuck in the constant state of isolation, anxiety and uncertainty around covid will have been detrimental to some of the players/coaches.

 

[Pup Clarke]

I thought dropping Sibley was a misstep at the time. Sibley wasn't good, though he did have runs against SA and NZ, but he was showing glimpses and sold his wicket dearly.

I also think we're seeing why he was ahead of these other guys. Hameed is quite poor. Dropping Burns was also an error imo. Nothing has really changed.

I rate Pope, but he is a young man. I think England should pick and stick at #3 like NZ with KW. It will be an ugly 2-3 years but you're going to get that regardless.

I think one of Bairstow and Malan can be retained at #6 as an opportunist. Foakes at #7 when available. I've defended Buttler for a while but terribad glovework is a huge no no. The door stays open though.

Root has far too much on his shoulders right now. I'd almost give Broad the captaincy to ease the load.

I agree that Sibley was harshly treated. He's done some good things, toughed it out in testing conditions and generally put a big price on his wicket. They'd also invested some time in him

Bairstow is horrible. Seriously. Nothing against the guy, but the fact he has played almost 80 tests is a microcosm of England's muddled and rigid thinking, and over-reliance on white-ball talent to help determine their test XI. He isn't that 'talented'. England's persistance in trying to shoe-horn him into red ball cricket is frankly garbage

 

[Shri]

 

[theegyptian]

lol not watching that. Coles is a tool. He's only 31. He'd still be playing county cricket if any county would have him.

 

[theegyptian]

The Ashes: Enough of the funky tosh – batting coaching needs to go back to basics

Nothing summed up the general state of batting coaching in this country better than the sight before this Test of some of the top-order players batting on one leg in the Melbourne nets. Funkiness has replaced basic simplicity. It is a disease that has spread throughout the system from the bottom...

www.thetimes.co.uk

England's Test batting at rock bottom with deep-rooted issues

Systemic deficiencies in two areas that are fundamentals for good Test match batting - technique and temperament - are at the forefront of England's Test problems

www.cricbuzz.com

 

[TheJediBrah]

The only slight mitigating circumstances that England could point to regarding their performances in recent times would be covid. I think England have played 15 away tests since Australia last played an away test. Barring India I don't think anyone else has had the kind of schedule England have had in the timeframe. Inevitably been stuck in the constant state of isolation, anxiety and uncertainty around covid will have been detrimental to some of the players/coaches.

Could just as likely be an advantage over other teams that have played less

 

[Chubb]

State Educated England XI

“The People’s Team”
When Adam delved and Eve span, who was then the gentleman?

Chris Dent
Alex Lees
James Bracey
Liam Livingstone
Dan Lawrence
Ben Stokes *
Joe Clarke +
Chris Woakes
Jofra Archer
Mark Wood
Jack Leach

Should be clear, I don’t want to select Clarke but I couldn’t identify another wicketkeeper-batsman with a good enough record and thought Bracey should get a chance without the gloves. If someone can suggest a different player, it would obviously be better not to have him in the team.

Saqib Mahmood is also eligible for this side.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Is there anyone from outside the squad who could come in as captain? It is too much for Root, Stokes already has too much on his plate, and neither Buttler nor Burns are likely to be consistently selected. What is Tom Westley like?

 

[Chubb]

Is there anyone from outside the squad who could come in as captain? It is too much for Root, Stokes already has too much on his plate, and neither Buttler nor Burns are likely to be consistently selected. What is Tom Westley like?

Westley has Harmer to win all Essex' games, it doesn't require great captaincy skills to set the field for him and let him do his thing.

 

[the big bambino]

Australia don't actually bowl that quickly outside Starc, but I can't remember their last skiddy bowler

Richardson, Harris - even Siddle.

Generally speaking England's problems isn't bowling, as I'm sure we all know but which still seems to get undue comments. Neither is the solution to hate on the one demographic they get players from. From the outside they've neglected batting for white ball success and fast bowling depth. A side that has someone like Stokes as their 2nd best bat will have bully bowlers everywhere queueing to beat up on them. It's taken them years to go this low and will take as long to develop test batsmen. Presuming the ECB has the wit to even recognise it as a priority.

 

[Chubb]

Richardson, Harris - even Siddle.

Generally speaking England's problems isn't bowling, as I'm sure we all know but which still seems to get undue comments. Neither is the solution to hate on the one demographic they get players from. From the outside they've neglected batting for white ball success and fast bowling depth. A side that has someone like Stokes as their 2nd best bat will have bully bowlers everywhere queueing to beat up on them. It's taken them years to go this low and will take as long to develop test batsmen. Presuming the ECB has the wit to even recognise it as a priority.

Maybe not, but it makes some of us feel better.

You are right re white ball taking precedence. They were so scared of another humilating world cup they prioritised it - and it worked - but every action has an equal and opposite reaction and we see that now.

 

[ImpatientLime]

Maybe not, but it makes some of us feel better.

You are right re white ball taking precedence. They were so scared of another humilating world cup they prioritised it - and it worked - but every action has an equal and opposite reaction and we see that now.

yeah because no other nation manages to balance being good at both formats......

england becoming really ****ing good at white ball cricket is something to be embraced and enjoyed because for a few generations they were embarrassingly bad at it. the challenge should be to improve their red ball performance in league with it. their meteoric rise in white ball cricket should be taken as inspiration to make things better elsewhere. it shows they have the base talent, resources etc to do so.