Does Jadeja make your India ATG XI?

[Majestic]

Best team :-

Gavaskar
Sehwag
Dravid
Tendulkar
Kohli
Pant(wkt)
Kapil
Ashwin
Kumble/ Jadeja ( jads to bat higher)
Shami
Bumrah

The keeper would bat 6. To me, it is a simple choice - Kapil at 7, which means 8 can be either Jadeja or Ashwin. I prefer having bowlers of every variety available in ATG scenarios, so I would go with Kumble at 9 and Jadeja at 8. Also, Kapil can slide down to bat 8, and Jaddu can bat 7.

Kumble is a leg spinner and Jadeja is left arm spinner. I think you will miss an off spinner. Off spinners pair well with left arm spinners.

 

[honestbharani]

You're literally the no. 1 bat deep guy on CW.

This hurts.

 

[honestbharani]

I think you will miss an off spinner.

 

[GirthQuake]

Kumble is a leg spinner and Jadeja is left arm spinner. I think you will miss an off spinner. Off spinners pair well with left arm spinners.

Classic example of nerd cricket. Like a left armer makes attack more balanced and presents more threat. No it doesn't. A better/superior spinner pairs well with other spinner.

 

[GirthQuake]

Against this level of bowling Viru could be a walking wicket at the top and this may be blasphemous but Kapil too may be a liability at this level.

That's just conjecture fueled by selective memory though. Viru did have his issues against lateral movement but never against pace or bounce. He may not have the all rounded record like a handful have but he's hardly a walking wicket against any level of bowling. OTOH, not many ATG teams would present the threat he did at the top of the order. Nor would any of the ATG teams save for Lara have as destructive a batsman as him against top tier spin on crumbling pitches.

Cannot just pick one aspect and then make sweeping comments.

 

[Xix2565]

Someone as harmless as Thakur has a sub-30 average since Bumrah's debut and nobody is going to make a cogent case that Thakur is any better than Doddas of 90s.

Smh, let the Lord Thakur fans have something.

 

[kyear2]

This hurts.

Unless I'm remembering wrong @ataraxia is the one who consistently votes Imran no 1 all time.

 

[kyear2]

That's just conjecture fueled by selective memory though. Viru did have his issues against lateral movement but never against pace or bounce. He may not have the all rounded record like a handful have but he's hardly a walking wicket against any level of bowling. OTOH, not many ATG teams would present the threat he did at the top of the order. Nor would any of the ATG teams save for Lara have as destructive a batsman as him against top tier spin on crumbling pitches.

Cannot just pick one aspect and then make sweeping comments.

Agreed, Sehwag wasn't a bad batsman, but what do you think he's facing up front from the other teams? High level seam, swing, pace, the works. Playing at home of course would be a different story.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Similarly, and using @OverratedSanity team (think was the best I saw and knows his stuff), it's really a batsman short imo. I know the goal is to fit two spinners to cover all bases (and it's a strength), but outside of Sunny and Sachin the batting isn't as fortified as some of the other teams and to shorten it with Pant at 6 could be a problem? Against this level of bowling Viru could be a walking wicket at the top and this may be blasphemous but Kapil too may be a liability at this level.

Sehwag, Kapil and Jadeja have all made runs against great attacks. Saying they'd be liabilities in their positions (jadeja/Kapil at 7/8) in this kind of scenario is baseless.

I could make a reasonable argument the Indian ATG batting lineup is stronger than any national XI lineup bar Aus/WI.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Kapil/Ashwin is a very bad 7/8 in the context of ATG cricket.

Wouldn't most national team XIs have even worse batsmen at 7/8? Genuine question. Pakistan would have Imran/Wasim which would barely be better, NZ would only have Hadlee keeping that lower order afloat, don't think SA have a good option apart from Pollock either.

 

[TheJediBrah]

SA could potentially have genuine-all rounders from 7 to 9, depending who you choose

 

[271 & 16/166]

Gavaskar
Sehwag
Dravid (c)
Tendulkar
Laxman
Pant (+)
Jadeja
Kapil
Shami
Bumrah
Chandra

Finally..an acknowledgment on how great Chandrasekhar was

 

[Coronis]

Finally..an acknowledgment on how great Chandrasekhar was

Who?

 

[ataraxia]

Wouldn't most national team XIs have even worse batsmen at 7/8? Genuine question. Pakistan would have Imran/Wasim which would barely be better, NZ would only have Hadlee keeping that lower order afloat, don't think SA have a good option apart from Pollock either.

Certainly true but I think you've picked many of exceptions tbh. With MushMo, Imran/Wasim can bat 8/9 which is pretty sweet. My NZ lineup has Cairns, Hadlee, Vettori at 7–8–9. RSA despite their plethora of all-rounders does tend to have a bad tail however, for it's hard to justify leaving out Donald or Tayfield and Steyn's a lock too. Aus can have a very strong tail but usually doesn't, while all the other teams tend to have bad tails I think.

But at the risk of saying the obvious, just because everyone else has a bad tail doesn't justify India having a bad tail too. If we apply the same logic to selecting ATG sides as we do to regular sides, then we'd nearly need a proper bat, someone like Imran or Jadeja, at #8.

 

[GirthQuake]

Agreed, Sehwag wasn't a bad batsman, but what do you think he's facing up front from the other teams? High level seam, swing, pace, the works. Playing at home of course would be a different story.

Sehwag wasn't a bad batsman in the same way Joe Root or Ponting or Chappell were not. Sehwag did face seam, swing pace throughout his career and managed to have a record for an opener that is unparalleled. So not sure what your point here is or how you can dismiss him as a walking wicket.

He has holes in his resume just like Ponting does. Or viv against leg spin.

At least, Sehwag and Ponting did prove themselves playing against the best attacks in varied conditions unlike some other so-called ATGs like Hobbs who probably couldn't play Sehwag's gentle offies at Wankhede for all we know.

 

[GirthQuake]

Finally..an acknowledgment on how great Chandrasekhar was

Yes, Chandra would be a dead certainty in my ATG Xi too but Ashwin and Jadeja's all round performance over the last few years have made it hard to look past them. As a pure attacking spinner, Chandra probably has been the best ever from India.

 

[Coronis]

Personally I think we should just be picking the best players i.e 6 batsmen 1 keeper 3 pacers 1 spinner. Ideally one of your batsman (or multiple) should be able to be at least competent with the ball to give the main attack a break, and ideally at least one of your bowlers should be able to swing a stick without embarrassing the team but hey we don’t live in an ideal world.

I just dislike the idea of shoehorning in an AR to have an AR while sacrificing specialist quality (might be why I’m not really a fan of Miller in an Aussie side).

 

[Coronis]

Sehwag wasn't a bad batsman in the same way Joe Root or Ponting or Chappell were not. Sehwag did face seam, swing pace throughout his career and managed to have a record for an opener that is unparalleled. So not sure what your point here is or how you can dismiss him as a walking wicket.

He has holes in his resume just like Ponting does. Or viv against leg spin.

At least, Sehwag and Ponting did prove themselves playing against the best attacks in varied conditions unlike some other so-called ATGs like Hobbs who probably couldn't play Sehwag's gentle offies at Wankhede for all we know.

I think that would be a walk in the park for a guy who thrived in the era of uncovered pitches.

 

[GirthQuake]

I think that would be a walk in the park for a guy who thrived in the era of uncovered pitches.

Unfortunately, that is not how cricket is played. If not for a fairly mediocre Qadir, most people would assume Viv would have smashed Warne. Uncovered pitches BS needs a quiet burial too.

 

[Bolo.]

Wouldn't most national team XIs have even worse batsmen at 7/8? Genuine question. Pakistan would have Imran/Wasim which would barely be better, NZ would only have Hadlee keeping that lower order afloat, don't think SA have a good option apart from Pollock either.

Most of the other teams are playing only 4 guys whose primary job is bowling.

Pak is barely better, assuming 5 proper bowlers, but they are one of the few who potentially go that route (and they have less need to than India).

NZ have Vettori and Hadlee, so probably a bit worse. If they even choose to play 5.

RSA have Kallis and Pollock, unless they really want to go 6 bowlers, in which case it's Pollock and Procter/Faulkner, which is still better.

WIs-Sobers
Aus and SL-likely 4 with decent part-timers. Aus is still comparable even if playing Miller.
England- Botham +???. Could be a bit worse, or anywhere up to vastly better, depending on what kind of player you pick.