Dhoni v Gilchrist

[TheJediBrah]

Well, if you open Sachin and Sanath, you do free up space to play a pure batsman at 7. Viv can bowl and so can Bevan/Hussey. So you get 2 part time bowlers + a proper 5th bowler in that case.

Good to see Andrew Symonds get a mention

I think most of this thread is ignoring the fact that Dhoni in test cricket was really nothing special at all, as captain, keeper and batsman. More of handy cricketer overall.

Nobody here is arguing that Gilchrist in both test and ODIs wasnt worldclass as an allround wicketkeeper batsman. And the fact that he wasnt a one format great is enough to rank him ahead of Dhoni.

You've literally just repeated what 95% of people in the thread have said. You're entirely correct but only 1 person is ignoring that, not most of the thread.

 

[Jayro]

Picking an ATG ODI side is wayyyyyy more tricky than picking a test side.

All of Kohli, Viv, ABdV, Bevan/Hussey and Dhoni cannot make the cut as that would leave the team a bowler short.

Sacin,
ABdV,
Viv,
Virat,
Bevan,
MSD,
Kapil,
Shaun pollock,
Wasim,
Warne,
Ambrose/Mcgrath/Garner.
Here I packed it for you by hacking an opener slot lol.

 

[honestbharani]

You've literally just repeated what 95% of people in the thread have said. You're entirely correct but only 1 person is ignoring that, not most of the thread.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Oh and Mike Hussey isn't controlling anything as a bowler. He was a slow **** medium pacer, similar to Kohli and ABdV.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

You can pick them all and rely on Viv and Tendulkar to make up the 10 overs. And honestly, if it was a weird draft format where you got to pick the side first, picking

Tendulkar
Gilchrist
Viv *
Kohli
De Villiers
Bevan
Dhoni+
Wasim
Warne/ Saqlain/ Murali
Garner
McGrath

Might be a really good selection, because it would force your opponent to miss out on all of the counter balancing picks. They'd be forced into something like:

Watson
Lara
Ponting *
Sangakkara
Symonds
Hussey
Buttler +
Starc
Hadlee
Warne/ Murali/ Saqlain
Ambrose

Which would be a fantastic side, but would have an inferior keeper and inferior chasers/ finishers. The second side would be strengthened significantly by including Gilchrist and Bevan over Lara and Buttler.

I love Sanga as a test player but wouldn't dream of puttinh him in an ATG ODI side (even as a keeper). Surely Dean Jones, Zaheer Abbas, or Ross Taylor.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Sangakkara has become shockingly overrated in the short form. The 2015 WC group stage wasnt his entire career people. SR of 79 when a lot of his career was played in the high scoring t20 era is incredibly unimpressive.

 

[Spark]

MHussey shouldn't really be in the discussion for an ATG ODI side regardless tbh. Damn fine player in his pomp but his career overlaps with Dhoni's and Dhoni is a straight upgrade batting wise (though not a huge one, as they had similar skillsets) plus he can keep, and Hussey had the ignoble captaincy record of 3 games, 3 losses.

 

[The Sean]

Shocking lack of Mick Lewis in these all-time ODI XIs.

He made history, people.

 

[TheJediBrah]

MHussey shouldn't really be in the discussion for an ATG ODI side regardless tbh.

interesting take. Avge 48, SR 87, not even in the discussion? Did bomb massively at the World Cup though, the only games that really matter

Sangakkara has become shockingly overrated in the short form. The 2015 WC group stage wasnt his entire career people. SR of 79 when a lot of his career was played in the high scoring t20 era is incredibly unimpressive.

Agree. Fine player but shouldn't be talked of in the same league as Dhoni or Gilchrist.

 

[Spark]

interesting take. Avge 48, SR 87, not even in the discussion? Did bomb massively at the World Cup though, the only games that really matter

It's not that he's miles off, it's more than he was such a similar batsman to Dhoni and Dhoni was straight up better in a straightforward like-for-like comparison, if not by a lot. And yeah not really impressing in WCs counts against him.

 

[TheJediBrah]

It's not that he's miles off, it's more than he was such a similar batsman to Dhoni and Dhoni was straight up better in a straightforward like-for-like comparison, if not by a lot. And yeah not really impressing in WCs counts against him.

Yeah but you've got 11 spots in a team you're allowed more than 1 middle-order batsman. Don't have to pick him but surely he's in the discussion

 

[stephen]

I love Sanga as a test player but wouldn't dream of puttinh him in an ATG ODI side (even as a keeper). Surely Dean Jones, Zaheer Abbas, or Ross Taylor.

Sure, pick one. The point is that if the first XI grabs Gilchrist and Dhoni and Bevan they squeeze the second XI into some very sub optimal selections in key positions.

 

[honestbharani]

Sure, pick one. The point is that if the first XI grabs Gilchrist and Dhoni and Bevan they squeeze the second XI into some very sub optimal selections in key positions.

Buttler is a very good pick though. Its just so hard to compare across eras even between the 3 that i have seen in my life in ODIs too. So many rule changes, so many different types of tournaments, playing conditions, even pitch and ground conditions... Its funny how we keep debating things about test cricket but ODI cricket has actually been the most debatable format, as in, it has the most grounds for arguments and clashing PoVs and contextual interpretation of numbers etc.

 

[stephen]

Buttler is a very good pick though. Its just so hard to compare across eras even between the 3 that i have seen in my life in ODIs too. So many rule changes, so many different types of tournaments, playing conditions, even pitch and ground conditions... Its funny how we keep debating things about test cricket but ODI cricket has actually been the most debatable format, as in, it has the most grounds for arguments and clashing PoVs and contextual interpretation of numbers etc.

True, but Buttler isn't exactly a great keeper. He's also not averaging a great amount by today's standards. He does strike extremely well, which is important. However, he's a pretty huge step down from Dhoni and Gilchrist IMO.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

I see no one has mentioned “running between the wickets” that the OP put as a criteria”.

 

[Gob]

It's not that he's miles off, it's more than he was such a similar batsman to Dhoni and Dhoni was straight up better in a straightforward like-for-like comparison, if not by a lot. And yeah not really impressing in WCs counts against him.

Tbh he was hardly required

 

[Spark]

Tbh he was hardly required

He was very much required in 2011 against Pakistan and India

 

[Gob]

There were many openers in Gilly's time who were batter or equally good, it has been discussed how opening has procured leverage even to an ordinary career in ODI's,its arguably a comparatively easy spot for the cherry pickings with fielding restrictions,add that with a solid middle order in a dominating side like Australia and it's a free license, even Shane Watson and many others would have done the job with equally efficiency,have been very few finishers of the game in entire ODI history of the game as MSD was---- picking in an all time eleven, when each other's keeping becomes secondary or cancels it, Gilly will always come secondary option to MSD.

I must have missed a lot of cricket

 

[Gob]

He was very much required in 2011 against Pakistan and India

Oh **** for some reason i completely forgot 2011

 

[OverratedSanity]

He got owned by old ball zaheer like every other middle order bat that wc.