Dean Jones sacked for racist remark

[Smudge]

I certainly don't believe much of the article quoted by silentstriker but this:

Anyway, regarding the South African players last summer, wasn't the quoted abuse in Perth actually in afrikaans, rather than english? Given the high number of ex-pats in the area, you'd think that would be a fairly likely source.

is just simply trying to find an excuse. Yes, there may have been a possibility it was from ex-pats, but considering (apparently) they mangled the usage of the phrase, I wouldn't be so quick to point the finger at the Saffas.

 

[archie mac]

How common is racism in Australia anyway? I thought the incidents with South Africa were relatively rare, but:

This is not an imagined fear. The West Indians have long complained that the Australians' sledging goes beyond accepted limits. Darren Lehmann infamously called a Sri Lanka player a 'black ****' in Adelaide three years ago. Muttiah Muralitharan has been branded a chucking cheat there, and the opprobrium has not been restricted to the technical. The South Africans complained about racist remarks in the crowd last winter. I've heard it there myself when a friend, objecting to a late-afternoon diatribe against India in Melbourne, was greeted with a vicious, drunken '**** off, ****** lover.'


The Australian author and former cricket writer Malcolm Knox created a storm in the wake of the Lehmann embarrassment. 'I was taken to task for "inventing" trouble where none existed,' he wrote. 'Yet I'd seen racism with my own eyes. On a tour to India, I heard two Australian cricketers call the locals "******s". I saw Australian cricketers coming across Indians sleeping on a railway platform in Jamshedpur and nudging them awake with their feet to take a happy snap.'


Last summer, the 'Pikey' chants dimmed. There were a few idiots, but they were isolated. As Knox says, assimilation is far in advance in the UK.

It upsets fair-minded Australians to admit it, but racism is a lingering problem there. It has manifested itself in so many ugly incidents at cricket grounds recently that the International Cricket Council sent India's solicitor-general, Goolam Vahanvati, to investigate. He concluded that racial abuse by spectators on South Africa's tour last winter 'could not be explained away as being the result of drunken behaviour'. It was, he said, 'premeditated, coordinated and calculated to get under the players' skins'.

I am sick of hearing how racist we (Australians) are, it happens in every country and is an individual thing.

You can point the finger at India, Pakistan and Sri Lanka for the Caste system, which although it has improved alot is still alive and well in those countries.

In the USA how long did it take before African-Americans were allowed to play with white players in Baseball, Basketball or American Football?

In Australia people of different colour have always been allowed to play sport at the hightest level with the white population. And yes I know there have been other problems

 

[BoyBrumby]

The full article SS quotes from was in today's Observer.

Link here: http://observer.guardian.co.uk/sport/story/0,,1843752,00.html

Kevin Mitchell (the author of the piece) does quote Malcolm Knox as saying 'While English sporting clubs struggle to harmonise different cultures, Australian clubs fix the problem by leaving non-whites out.'

Dunno if there's any truth in that?

 

[archie mac]

The full article SS quotes from was in today's Observer.

Link here: http://observer.guardian.co.uk/sport/story/0,,1843752,00.html

Kevin Mitchell (the author of the piece) does quote Malcolm Knox as saying 'While English sporting clubs struggle to harmonise different cultures, Australian clubs fix the problem by leaving non-whites out.'

Dunno if there's any truth in that?

I am not sure where that comes from, the best/exciting players of Aussie Rules are always Aboringinals. I have been playing cricket for 30+ years, and there have been cricketers of Indian, Pakistan, Sri Lankan heritage in every team I have ever played in. I also played badminton for a numer of years and the Asian (in Aust. we tend to class Asians as people from countries such as China, Korea etc) players were always the keenest and amonst the better players.

I watched a Doco from England about one town where the people with Pakistani heritage were hated by all of the white people and vice versa, that does not lead me to believe that the whole of England is like that.

 

[silentstriker]

I am sick of hearing how racist we (Australians) are, it happens in every country and is an individual thing.

You can point the finger at India, Pakistan and Sri Lanka for the Caste system, which although it has improved alot is still alive and well in those countries.

In the USA how long did it take before African-Americans were allowed to play with white players in Baseball, Basketball or American Football?

In Australia people of different colour have always been allowed to play sport at the hightest level with the white population. And yes I know there have been other problems

Err, I've never claimed that any other country is free of racism or that it has less racism than Australia. I simply posted an article and asked an opinion. In fact, I even said that I believed it was pretty rare, but since the article seemed to contradict that belief, I asked for other opinions from people living there.

Your defensiveness actually tells me something.

 

[BoyBrumby]

I dunno enough about the background in Oz to comment at all. Knox is a fairly respected cricket writer tho, isn't he?

Wrote a pretty decent novel about it anyway, "Adult Book" which explores the underdeveloped connections between test cricket & adult publications!

 

[archie mac]

Err, I've never claimed that any other country is free of racism or that it has less racism than Australia. I simply posted an article and asked an opinion. In fact, I even said that I believed it was pretty rare, but since the article seemed to contradict that belief, I asked for other opinions from people living there.

My post was not directed at you, but at the article you quoted. As I was born in Aust and have lived here for near on 40 years, I think I can post a reply with a little knowledge.

Your defensiveness actually tells me something.

Please enlighten me

 

[archie mac]

I dunno enough about the background in Oz to comment at all. Knox is a fairly respected cricket writer tho, isn't he?

Wrote a pretty decent novel about it anyway, "Adult Book" which explores the underdeveloped connections between test cricket & adult publications!

Yes a great writer, I have read that book and written a review of it for CW (just wainting for the proof reader) he does have some harsh things to say about the Aussie habits of sledging in the book. Have you read it?

He is the same age as myself so I imagine he would have experienced similar things while growing up. Would like to make sure those quotes are in context tbh

 

[Dasa]

I am sick of hearing how racist we (Australians) are, it happens in every country and is an individual thing.

You can point the finger at India, Pakistan and Sri Lanka for the Caste system, which although it has improved alot is still alive and well in those countries.

In the USA how long did it take before African-Americans were allowed to play with white players in Baseball, Basketball or American Football?

In Australia people of different colour have always been allowed to play sport at the hightest level with the white population. And yes I know there have been other problems

Archie, with all due respect, that seems a very simplistic view of things. It's not enough that 'people of colour' are allowed to play sports at the highest level. Certainly in cricket, there is an unspoken (at most times) racism that makes it very difficult for non-whites and subcontinentals to get anywhere. In this respect England is far far ahead of Australia.

Kevin Mitchell (the author of the piece) does quote Malcolm Knox as saying 'While English sporting clubs struggle to harmonise different cultures, Australian clubs fix the problem by leaving non-whites out.'

It is definitely true in my experience. Members of my family have experienced such discrimination, in both school and club cricket. In school cricket, it was my brothers experience (at a fairly exclusive private school as well) where he was the top run-scorer for the school thirds team and would routinely go out and save the team from sticky situations only to see inferior white players promoted above him. He has had a similar experience at club cricket level as well.

Anyway silentstriker, although I would say the majority of the population isn't racist as such, there is plenty of ignorance and there sometimes is an unwillingness to condemn or criticise those who are racist. I've experienced plenty of racism in my time, and often this has gone unpunished (in high school) and at other times it has almost been justified by those in authority.
I can certainly see why there is a problem with racism in Australia - it is one of two 'white' countries in the region among other racial groups and some countries who are hostile to Australia. Additionally, the history of the country can't be discussed with reference to racism (although John Howard et al would have you think there's never been any racism) and indeed the establishment of 'white' civilisation in Australia was been made possible by racist actions. It doesn't justify racism, but it explains why there exists a significant fear of 'foreigners'.

 

[silentstriker]

Archie, with all due respect, that seems a very simplistic view of things. It's not enough that 'people of colour' are allowed to play sports at the highest level. Certainly in cricket, there is an unspoken (at most times) racism that makes it very difficult for non-whites and subcontinentals to get anywhere. In this respect England is far far ahead of Australia.


It is definitely true in my experience. Members of my family have experienced such discrimination, in both school and club cricket. In school cricket, it was my brothers experience (at a fairly exclusive private school as well) where he was the top run-scorer for the school thirds team and would routinely go out and save the team from sticky situations only to see inferior white players promoted above him. He has had a similar experience at club cricket level as well.

Anyway silentstriker, although I would say the majority of the population isn't racist as such, there is plenty of ignorance and there sometimes is an unwillingness to condemn or criticise those who are racist. I've experienced plenty of racism in my time, and often this has gone unpunished (in high school) and at other times it has almost been justified by those in authority.
I can certainly see why there is a problem with racism in Australia - it is one of two 'white' countries in the region among other racial groups and some countries who are hostile to Australia. Additionally, the history of the country can't be discussed with reference to racism (although John Howard et al would have you think there's never been any racism) and indeed the establishment of 'white' civilisation in Australia has been made possible by racist actions. It doesn't justify racism, but it explains why there exists a significant fear of 'foreigners'.

Quite different from where I live in the US. Racism exists, but in four years of high school and five years of college, I've never experienced anything remotely like that. Other people in the US may have had different experience, and this is just my own, but it almost seems like a difference of night and day.

 

[archie mac]

Archie, with all due respect, that seems a very simplistic view of things. It's not enough that 'people of colour' are allowed to play sports at the highest level. Certainly in cricket, there is an unspoken (at most times) racism that makes it very difficult for non-whites and subcontinentals to get anywhere. In this respect England is far far ahead of Australia.

I was just giving an example of my experience which is from a sports point of view. I have seen many racist remarks made on a cricket field, some of which have made me cringe. But having been on a lot of selection panels I can honestly say I have never heard of race being a reason why a player has not advanced.

But this is just from my own experience, I did read about a FC cricketer who went to court about being abused racially but the judge dismissed the case. So yes Aust. has a long way to go

I can also tell you (from what I have read) that CA is really hoping to see a non white player make it to the highest level of cricket, I also think this would be a great thing for cricket in this country.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

is just simply trying to find an excuse. Yes, there may have been a possibility it was from ex-pats, but considering (apparently) they mangled the usage of the phrase, I wouldn't be so quick to point the finger at the Saffas.

I don't think it really matters personally, but it's worth considering when you're trying to find reasons for it. After all, the West Indies toured the same summer and had no racial issues, while apparently the South Africans had them in a pretty severe way.

 

[FRAZ]

I am sick of hearing how racist we (Australians) are, it happens in every country and is an individual thing.

You can point the finger at India, Pakistan and Sri Lanka for the Caste system, which although it has improved alot is still alive and well in those countries.

In the USA how long did it take before African-Americans were allowed to play with white players in Baseball, Basketball or American Football?

In Australia people of different colour have always been allowed to play sport at the hightest level with the white population. And yes I know there have been other problems

People are people , some are good and some are bad .

 

[FRAZ]

I don't think it really matters personally, but it's worth considering when you're trying to find reasons for it. After all, the West Indies toured the same summer and had no racial issues, while apparently the South Africans had them in a pretty severe way.

You mean they should've attacked Windians too ?????

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

You mean they should've attacked Windians too ?????

Haha, what? No, I mean that if the problem was a widespread loathing of other races among Australian cricket fans, you would have imagined that teams other than South Africa would have faced it.

 

[FRAZ]

. I have been playing cricket for 30+ years,

Archie mate you know what I always thought you were of my age . Anyways !!!

 

[FRAZ]

People are people , some are good and some are bad .

And overall some of them end up hating most of the OTHERS .

 

[archie mac]

Archie mate you know what I always thought you were of my age . Anyways !!!

How old are you mate?

 

[vic_orthdox]

OK, I'm no Dean Jones fan - he's an egotistical flog - but this article was just as bad as that other one about the Warne biography that appeared in the Bulletin the other week.

Dean Jones: cricket tragic

...

On Dubai's Ten Sports, Jones presented as a comedian, a buffoon let loose in the complex cultural soup of a region that he hasn’t bothered to learn about. I’m sure I've heard him remark that the Pakistani batsman who just scored a heroic ton deserves a stiff drink for his efforts. Apart from the Hindu spinner Danesh Kaneria, most of the Pakistani team are devout Muslims. Perhaps Deano thinks they are looking for Inzy's contact lens when they genuflect to Mecca before entering the arena.

I winced at his congratulation of an Indian Hindu player who had just scored a century. The batsman squinted skyward, possibly to see if his mum was in the stands, or maybe just because he was adjusting for the strong Indian sun to prepare for the double ton. Jones offered viewers his penetrating view that the batsman “looks to the heaven to thank god for his sterling knock.” Which god, Deano? Hinduism has millions of them. Hardly sackable offences, but certainly eye-watering in their ignorance.

Seriously, lets hang Dean Jones for using figures of speech.

Cricket is a broad church but Jones comments on matters subcontinental as if he’s never left the Aussie boozer, the same ocker jokes, the same inane observations.

As alluded to by Jono, he's probably been hired because of this, not in spite of. He's not the worst commentator in the world by any stretch of the imagination, and I thought that the different prospective he provided to Ten Sports helped the brand.

I’ve followed his parallel careers as he takes the big bucks of the cricket-crazy subcontinent while trying to maintain a media profile back home

And that's a crime?

I’ve logged on via the net to Melbourne radio 3AW’s Sports Today whenever time zones permit. It’s a wonderful, if bizarre, contrast. Once, in Kabul, a Kandahari war widow was cleaning my room as Jones joshed with the good old boys of 3AW, his new employers who don’t seem to get - or worse, care - what damage he has done. She listened intently to my computer, desperate to advance her English. Jones was just desperate to advance his career in Australia, in the vain hope that someone – a Mark Taylor, an Ian Healy - falls off the Oz cricket commentary bus. The 3AW lads rarely ask him what’s happening in India or Pakistan, unless its a query about the Indian team coach Greg Chappell, and Jones mostly just mouths off about what’s wrong with the very successful Australian team. Then another ocker calls in to say what a great bloke Deano is, and what a hero he was for Australia in Madras in 1985 et al. There are nods all round ad infinitum.

1. He's been employed by 3AW for a long time.
2. Lets be honest, Dean Jones will never be employed by Channel 9 because he never got on with "the heirachy", and I'm sure he knows that better than anyone. (And funnily enough, the Bulletin is owned by the same company that owns Channel 9 - so no suprise to see the article defending Warney, and this one putting down Jones!)
3. He usually does a quick 5-10 minute segment, where they do ask a few questions about cricket matters, and usually there are references to the happenings of the cricket world.
4. Dean Jones is spending too much time talking about the knock in 1985 for any listener to have the chance to call in and talk about it.
5. You can see the nods?

But not to worry, sport, the good old boys of 3AW are there to bail him out. Indeed, the moment the disgraced Deano arrived back in Australia he was spinning that "Maaaaate, I’m no racist, some of my best friends are Muslims, I’ve even got a relative who’s a Muslim" and so on.

Just quietly, I'd like to see the direct quote of this. In the interviews I've seen and heard, he did a much better job than that of defending himself, and wasn't so stereotypical in his deny (and we won't go into the condescending stretching out of the word "mate" to further enhance their characterisation of Jones).

The hosts agreed that Deano’s apology was suitably contrite, that there was no place in sport for racism. This is the same 3AW that stars Rex "Black Dog" Hunt and routinely calls Pakistanis "*****". A few good blokes rang in to say Deano was a great bloke and all was well again with the world, the damage had been fixed.

Ah, Rex Hunt's jibe, now there's a nice little storm in a tea-cup we can drag out every time it suits.

Funnily enough, when this arised, I liked how a couple of reports were talking about racism being a constant in Australian cricket (yes, there is a problem) and they used the Shane Warne incident towards Makhaya Ntini as an example. See the Rex Hunt reference above.

Eric Ellis The Bulletin correspondent based in Singapore

Just bolding the name for reference.

In all honesty, I think that the appropriate parties have handled this pretty well. Jones apologised, Amla was exceedingly classy in his acceptance, and Ten Sports did what they had to, and should have, done.

It's been third parties like Border, and journalists who see it their need to comment on anything in the news (I'm looking at you, Robin Riley) who have turned this into a car-crash.

 

[howardj]

Was Deanno, God forbid, wearing another one of his skivies on his return to Australia? Whatever it was, the neck part of his attire seemed awfully prominent. Deserves life for that, alone.