CW50 2nd Edition - No 09

[Jono]

Better statesman.

Also, depends on who is doing the disliking.

No, but Steve Waugh was far less overt in showing emotion than Ponting.

That's my point. So whilst winning all the time had a lot to do with it, Ponting was just a far less likeable bloke on the field as captain than Steve Waugh.

It's also interesting that Waugh started the mindset which Ponting carried on and was pilloried for, whereas Waugh gets let off for that, which I've never really understood. Some of the stuff Waugh stood by and watched his players carry on with was as bad, if not worse, than anything Ponting over saw.

That's true.

 

[Flem274*]

No, but Steve Waugh was far less overt in showing emotion than Ponting. He also came into a rank side and did it hard early. People tend to relate more to opponent's like that I think.

It's also interesting that Waugh started the mindset which Ponting carried on and was pilloried for, whereas Waugh gets let off for that, which I've never really understood. Some of the stuff Waugh stood by and watched his players carry on with was as bad, if not worse, than anything Ponting over saw.

Half the reason might be many CWers are too young to remember much of Waugh. Our drawn series with your lot in 2000 or so was the first cricket I ever watched, but all I remember is Waugh's batting rather than his captaincy. With Ponting I remember both.

I think Ponting is not viewed too badly over here. We wanted him to fail, but Brett Lee is the one people over here really hate I think.

 

[Jono]

Is that cos he bowls beamers at your players?

 

[Ikki]

Yes, because if Anderson comes out and says Zaheer is better than him, it automatically makes it true.

Funny how you are more than willing to use entirely statistics or entirely opinion interchangeably..

Strawman. I use both. If Lillee had Kapil Dev's ratios this wouldn't be a discussion so stop being intellectually dishonest.

Hadlee was humble; so humble he said he pretty much modeled himself after Lillee.

 

[BackFootPunch]

Brett Lee is the one people over here really hate I think.

Do you know why? Big fan of him tbh

 

[Flem274*]

Is that cos he bowls beamers at your players?

Haha yeah that was the start of it. Between his beamers, his face, and his crap death bowling, NZ fans love ripping into Lee.

Lee has got his own back on several occasions sadly.

 

[Flem274*]

I use both.

I never denied it.

I was commenting on the timing.

 

[Ikki]

As for the Ponting v Waugh discussion; I also think it was because Ponting won far more - in both formats - and the continuance of domination from Waugh went from awe to annoyance for those who weren't Australian. Kinda like watching Barca now - people loved the way they played initially and hailed them highly...now it's starting to turn people against them.

 

[Ikki]

I never denied it.

I was commenting on the timing.

I use both at the same time. If you have an example to put forth do so. We're waiting.

 

[Flem274*]

I use both at the same time. If you have an example to put forth do so. We're waiting.

This thread.

I think the most telling thing was you responded to my post which included no names. Read into it what you will.

 

[ankitj]

Yes, because if Anderson comes out and says Zaheer is better than him, it automatically makes it true.

Funny how you are more than willing to use entirely statistics or entirely opinion interchangeably..

You know Ponting is a better ODI cricketer than Tendulkar when you look at Ponting's fielding and captaincy.

Lillee is a better cricketer than Hadlee, you can ignore latter's batting.

You will find enough contradictions!

 

[weldone]

You know Ponting is a better ODI cricketer than Tendulkar when you look at Ponting's fielding and captaincy.

Lillee is a better cricketer than Hadlee, you can ignore latter's batting.

You will find enough contradictions!

How are they contradictory? Both Ponting and Lillee are Australians, aren't they? Basically he's saying the same thing.

 

[Ikki]

You know Ponting is a better ODI cricketer than Tendulkar when you look at Ponting's fielding and captaincy.

Lillee is a better cricketer than Hadlee, you can ignore latter's batting.

You will find enough contradictions!

This is for CW's 'Greatest' cricketers. Not who was the best all-round player. Otherwise I'd have voted Chris Cairns above McGrath and Kallis over Sachin; neither of which happened.

This thread.

I think the most telling thing was you responded to my post which included no names. Read into it what you will.

This thread where? Where have I chosen to rate a player entirely on stats or entirely on repute where if I had done both at the same time I'd have come away with a different opinion?

What's telling is that you started strawmen as soon as I pegged your hero down below Lillee.

 

[Flem274*]

where if I had done both at the same time I'd have come away with a different opinion?

I don't remember saying that either...

 

[weldone]

This is for CW's 'Greatest' cricketers. Not who was the best all-round player.

So, is Ponting the better all-round ODI player than Tendulkar, while Tendulkar is the better ODI cricketer?

 

[Ikki]

I don't remember saying that either...

It's irrelevant. The assumption is that this would be the result and hence your gripe. That I chose to change my end opinion by the means I employ to rate them. Let's say it wouldn't make a difference then, just to appease your pedantry. You're yet to cite an example. Still waiting.

 

[Burgey]

So, is Ponting the better all-round ODI player than Tendulkar, while Tendulkar is the better ODI cricketer?

He's a better test cricketer, factoring in his fielding and captaincy, if you want to take that approach. I don't think it's so clear in ODIs.

 

[Ikki]

So, is Ponting the better all-round ODI player than Tendulkar, while Tendulkar is the better ODI cricketer?

You mean 'greater'. It's close, I don't have a problem with either ahead of the other.

He's a better test cricketer, factoring in his fielding and captaincy, if you want to take that approach. I don't think it's so clear in ODIs.

This.

 

[weldone]

He's a better test cricketer, factoring in his fielding and captaincy, if you want to take that approach.

No I don't, thanks

 

[smash84]

lol......in the end it all boils down to Tendulkar vs Ponting

btw guess who is next in the line in CW top 50?