CW50 2nd Edition - No 09

[Flem274*]

As much as I hate to admit it, Tendulkar is probably slightly better than Ponting. I always pick Ponting though.

I ****ing love Punter nowadays though. The **** was seriously a God back in the day, and is now a hero for battling on and on and on.

 

[smash84]

Tendulkar is probably slightly better than Ponting. I always pick Ponting though.
.

yep awta......Tendy's longevity and resurgence late in his career have actually put him above Ponting for mine

 

[silentstriker]

As much as I hate to admit it, Tendulkar is probably slightly better than Ponting. I always pick Ponting though.

I ****ing love Punter nowadays though. The **** was seriously a God back in the day, and is now a hero for battling on and on and on.

lol

 

[BackFootPunch]

As much as I hate to admit it, Tendulkar is probably slightly better than Ponting. I always pick Ponting though.

Think I might actually agree with this now. Used to dislike Ponting immensely and have always loved Tendulkar but recently I find myself wanting Punter to do well. Interestingly enough this began around the time I started reading CW. Correlation? Or has Ponting just been less of a **** since about September last year?

 

[Burgey]

Think I might actually agree with this now. Used to dislike Ponting immensely and have always loved Tendulkar but recently I find myself wanting Punter to do well. Interestingly enough this began around the time I started reading CW. Correlation? Or has Ponting just been less of a **** since about September last year?

I think from his own wellbeing POV, Ponting captained too long. He just didn't look like he was enjoying it any more, or the game as much. It told in his actions and demeanour I think. Now he seems relaxed.

I think he's more likable for other fans now because he doesn't lead a team which flogs the living **** out of everyone else.

 

[silentstriker]

I think that's definitely true.

 

[vic_orthdox]

The case for Lilllee is so universal amongst his contemporaries so overwhelmingly that you really have to pay attention IMO. A few points of average really means very little overall.

As I said before, I don't know of a single player (maybe people can correct me) from the 70s or 80s who has anyone except Lillee or Marshall as the best, and most times, the best ever. They just don't exist. And they knew about Hadlee, and Imran, and Holding, and Garner, and all the rest. And yet, Lillee for the vast majority, still comes out on top.

Have you had a bit of a change of attitude over time?

 

[silentstriker]

Yes

 

[smash84]

The case for Lilllee is so universal amongst his contemporaries so overwhelmingly that you really have to pay attention IMO. A few points of average really means very little overall.

As I said before, I don't know of a single player (maybe people can correct me) from the 70s or 80s who has anyone except Lillee or Marshall as the best, and most times, the best ever. They just don't exist. And they knew about Hadlee, and Imran, and Holding, and Garner, and all the rest. And yet, Lillee for the vast majority, still comes out on top.

Gavaskar?

 

[Ikki]

The case for Lilllee is so universal amongst his contemporaries so overwhelmingly that you really have to pay attention IMO. A few points of average really means very little overall.

As I said before, I don't know of a single player (maybe people can correct me) from the 70s or 80s who has anyone except Lillee or Marshall as the best, and most times, the best ever. They just don't exist. And they knew about Hadlee, and Imran, and Holding, and Garner, and all the rest. And yet, Lillee for the vast majority, still comes out on top.

I think it comes down to whether people take into account the WSC and World XI matches he participated in that were essentially Tests but not counted officially. His stats actually improve and IIRC he has something like 30-40% matches against line-ups most bowlers will only face a few times, if at all. Line-ups with several ATG batsmen. That's why all the people who played with, against or just watched him rate him so highly - you know who the man is when he does the kind of things others dream about.

People also don't factor in things like him getting an injury that usually put people into immediate retirement or that he had series (like against WI) where he was essentially bowling with a broken back.

As you state; from that era it is clearly Lillee and then Marshall that people rated as the premier bowlers; Hadlee and even Imran were great bowlers and had their own fans but rarely did you hear a small consensus for them being better than the two aforementioned.

Like who in particular?

For e.g. I think Lillee and Hammond were greater than him but I don't think Tendulkar and Lara were.

 

[Flem274*]

The danger with buying into opinion too much is the winners, artists and fanboys write history.

Some people on CW are a case in point. (and for once Burgeh, I'm not taking the piss out of you)

 

[Burgey]

Gavaskar?

Bish, please. Stop taking the piss.

 

[weldone]

If you want to just go by stats, you may as well not watch the game.

Nah, I can choose to watch the game for my entertainment. If the only reason you watch cricket is to judge players, then you are a nerd.

 

[Ikki]

The danger with buying into opinion too much is the winners, artists and fanboys write history.

Some people on CW are a case in point. (and for once Burgeh, I'm not taking the piss out of you)

I think when your own hero (Hadlee), and batsmen of the #1 team of the time (WI); are lauding him that theory doesn't hold.

 

[Jono]

I think he's more likable for other fans now because he doesn't lead a team which flogs the living **** out of everyone else.

You've got a point, but Steve Waugh? Never even came close to being as disliked as Ponting.

 

[vic_orthdox]

You've got a point, but Steve Waugh? Never even came close to being as disliked as Ponting.

Better statesman.

Also, depends on who is doing the disliking.

 

[Burgey]

No, but Steve Waugh was far less overt in showing emotion than Ponting. He also came into a rank side and did it hard early. People tend to relate more to opponent's like that I think.

It's also interesting that Waugh started the mindset which Ponting carried on and was pilloried for, whereas Waugh gets let off for that, which I've never really understood. Some of the stuff Waugh stood by and watched his players carry on with was as bad, if not worse, than anything Ponting over saw.

 

[Flem274*]

I think when your own hero (Hadlee), and batsmen of the #1 team of the time (WI); are lauding him that theory doesn't hold.

Yes, because if Anderson comes out and says Zaheer is better than him, it automatically makes it true.

Funny how you are more than willing to use entirely statistics or entirely opinion interchangeably..

 

[BackFootPunch]

You've got a point, but Steve Waugh? Never even came close to being as disliked as Ponting.

Was thinking the same thing.

I think my Ponting hate came from what I originally perceived as arrogance and disdain for his opponents and the spirit of the game. But I've come to realise he's just a very passionate man who struggled to adapt to a change in the fortunes of his team and desperately wanted to see them playing better.

 

[Jono]

Funny how you are more than willing to use entirely statistics or entirely opinion interchangeably..

True.