*Congratulations* Brian Lara 10,000 Test Runs!

[tooextracool]

Maybe I exagerated a touch, but, while he is a great player, he places far too little importance on his wicket - I said Viv was in my top 5 because he scored even quicker than Lara.

the lara i've seen places far more importance on his wicket than tendulkar and has played far more innings under pressure than tendulkar has.

 

[PY]

Hutton/Hobbs/Lloyd/Gilchrist

You plonker.

 

[honestbharani]

and here's one reason why:
It is common in dealing with data sets to come across xtremely large or xtremely small values within the data set. these data points, known as outliers, are generally neglected when calculating properties of the data set as they do not "show" the trend of the data.
with this premise, i conducted a "Richardian" exercise.
I neglected the highest two scores by 5 players i consider to be 5 of the best; Sachin, Dravid, Richards, Sobers and Lara (Bradman is another outlier, so out ). To save me a little trouble, I assumed both the innings closed (b'men out).Then for this modified data set, I calculated the avera ge and calculated the drop in average from the original data. the results are:
Player Ori avg Mod avg
Lara 53.43 49.27
Dravid 58.09 54.76
Richards 50.23 47.72
Sobers 57.78 54.31
Sachin 57.39 55.29

while Lara's avg drops by ~4 runs, that of Richards, Dravid and Sobers drops by 3-3.5 and Sachins by ~2. to me that indicates Lara is not as consistent as the others, not by a lot mind you but still enough for the level these guys are at.
I know stats don't always tell the true story but I was hoping thus analysis removes any discrepencies in such a basis for analysis.
Please do comment,
cheers

I don't know why you want to drop out people's highest scores. I mean, Sachin worked really really hard for that 241* against Australia and Lara worked hard for his 400 and 375 too. And they all came against good attacks, maybe on featherbeds but still they should carry their weight.




And as far as Lara's rating is concerned, rating players from different generations is a steepy slope I refuse to ascend. I mean, a sportsman, any sportsman, can only aim to be the best of his time. Because calling someone the best of all time is purely a matter of subjective opinion and we all know that no two opinions are same, normally. So, he has, IMHO, proved that he is one of the best players of this generation, if not THE best player (in tests, that is) and I think the matter should rest there. Comparing players from different generations can be time consuming and a result is not guaranteed, like a test match.

 

[viktor]

I don't know why you want to drop out people's highest scores. I mean, Sachin worked really really hard for that 241* against Australia and Lara worked hard for his 400 and 375 too. And they all came against good attacks, maybe on featherbeds but still they should carry their weight.

sure they do carry weight. however the analysis i tried was purely statistical without going into style of batting, opposing attacks, nature of pitches e.t.c. i was only trying a different way of finding out the consistency of scoring of these players. I could have dropped out their lowest scores too, but they are zero, so it doesn't really matter so long as the basis is same for all of them. also the reason for dropping the top scores is to see how much the avg. has been boosted on account of these scores.
Lara may be suffers from having the top 2 scores dropped out but then they (375 & 400) are ,respectivley, ~ 36 and 45% above the next highest (277). thus they are, by any definition of the word, outliers and so had to be dropped.

infact because I had to drop those two scores, I dropped 2 for each of the others whereas the top 2 for the other players are nowhere as much larger than the 3rd highest.

what might be interesting is as someone suggested, to drop scores all below 10... however there is the danger,in the xtreme case, of not having any scores left to play with ...

 

[Revelation]

your problem withthat analysis and if you did stats you'd know this perfectly, is that while 375 and 400 are outliers, Sachin's 241 and 217 are not. So you've penalised Lara while Sachin gets away because he hasn't scored very high scores. An interesting stat would be to drop the not outs and do an analysis of runs per inning. Won't that make an interesting stat indeed, but then again,we're not here to make Lara look good, are we?

 

[Dasa]

^If you do that, Lara's avge drops to 51.78 from 53.44, while Tendulkar's avge drops from 57.39 to 51.47.
Not much of a difference.
For comparison, some other batsmen:
Dravid: 58.09 to 51.16
Hayden: 58.15 to 53.26
Gilchrist: 52.80 to 43.56
S. Waugh: 51.06 to 42.02

By the way, do you have to be so confrontational? Can't you just accept that some people may have an opinion different to yours? I don't think anyone is trying to PROVE that Tendulkar is better, or Lara is better (apart from you). Most people just seem to be stating their opinion.

 

[Jnr.]

I think you've jinxed BCL with this thread:
28.5 Flintoff to Lara, OUT: full, leg stump line, steps inside to flick,
steps to far, great bowling

West Indies 97/3, Partnership of 12
BC Lara b Flintoff 0 (5b 0x4 0x6)
SC Joseph 39* (69b 6x4) A Flintoff 6.5-2-10-2

 

[Mister Wright]

Another innings and Lara is still 7 runs short.

Bowled by Flintoff for a Duck.

I think he will personaly hunt Lord down and kill him, for starting this thread too early...

 

[delkap]

hehe, i was abt to post the same.. too late !!

 

[biased indian]

Lord u should have started this thread little early then lara would have taken years to reach there

 

[SpaceMonkey]

Tendulkar is gonna be happy...every extra inning that lara takes gives him more chance to reach 10 000 runs in faster time.

 

[Mister Wright]

Tendulkar is gonna be happy...every extra inning that lara takes gives him more chance to reach 10 000 runs in faster time.

Yeah, I'm sure Tendulkar is sitting there hoping Lara doesn't make 7 runs...

I know most cricketers do play for records (no matter what they say) but Tendulkar doesn't strike me as one of them.

 

[biased indian]

Yeah, I'm sure Tendulkar is sitting there hoping Lara doesn't make 7 runs...

I know most cricketers do play for records (no matter what they say) but Tendulkar doesn't strike me as one of them.

still a record is a good thing and every one will like one for himself

 

[steds]

he hasn't reached 10,000 test runs yet and it is possible (though extremely unlikely) that he may never reach it. Talk about jumping the gun...

I hate to say I told you so, but has he reached it yet???

 

[Mister Wright]

I hate to say I told you so, but has he reached it yet???

Would you like some kind of award?

 

[viktor]

your problem withthat analysis and if you did stats you'd know this perfectly, is that while 375 and 400 are outliers, Sachin's 241 and 217 are not. So you've penalised Lara while Sachin gets away because he hasn't scored very high scores.

I agree the Sachin's scores weren't outliers but as I said in the mail, I had to drop them to even the field. otherwise sachin would have been sitting pretty on his actual average (58.xyz) and u would have been shouting injustice because I did not do to sachin's scores what I did to Lara's. infact, I said so in my post (not the injustice part, thats assumed) though you prolly did not read it carefully, having already reached the conclusion that I was out to get BCL. so just to jog your memory,

infact because I had to drop those two scores, I dropped 2 for each of the others whereas the top 2 for the other players are nowhere as much larger than the 3rd highest.

also, please disabuse yourself of the notion that I am out to get Lara. I just have a different opinion than yours. accept that and get on with it or try and prove me wrong.

 

[honestbharani]

I think comparing two all time greats such as Lara and Sachin ultimately will always boil down to a matter of preference. There is little to choose between the two. Lara at his best seems to be better than Sachin but then again, Sachin seems the more consistent of the two. Therefore, I think we should all just thank our stars that we have been lucky enough to witness two of the all time great batsmen wielding their willows.

 

[Deja moo]

Yawnnnn.....
Lara ,get those runs quick .

 

[lord_of_darkness]

AHHHH!!!

Lara got a 0 bowled of Flintoff !! hes got 1 more innings and only 7 runs to get it...!!

 

[Revelation]

he's got 3 more. There's still another Test.