kyear2
International Coach
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Choose combo : Viv & Sachin vs Sobers & Kallis
- Thread starter DrWolverine
- Start date
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Not really. Ponting already said this before and I have made the same observation that several modern players are ranking Kallis the greatest ever based on raw stats, not necessarily how he played. KP did the same I recall.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
No. Kallis and Sobers are ahead of Viv and Tendulkar for an average team.
It was a regular article talking about why Kallis wasn't rated the same level in his prime which is what I always bring up too. The article cited evidence of his scoring rate and you didn't mention that.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
His SR really picked up 2009 onwards after his 2008/2009 slump for the last 30 odd tests of his career.
akilana
International 12th Man
Last edited:
akilana
International 12th Man
who's the author of the article? why does he make excuses for dravid? what does have in common with dravid?
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Lol folks here pretend he is resolutely defending Dravid whereas all he is saying is Dravids defensiveness was less damaging than Kallis.
Coronis
International Coach
Which is.. not true.
Neither of them were damaging.
Lol so now AB and Amla don’t count. Got it. Despite AB playing more matches with him than any batsman bar Smith. And add just Kirsten and Gibbs ahead of Amla. But you’re happy to bring up guys like Rhodes and Dippenar who played less than half that amount of matches with him. And players who literally only played with him when he wasn’t even established as a great batsmen. Good stuff mate.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
That's just not true.
First off, I already said it changed late career, around 2008 when ABD and Amla came into their own as bats. And Amla wasn't even an aggressive bat when he started, he started as an accumulator too if I recall.
But until that time, yes it was mostly accumulators. Cronje and Rhodes played until 2001, he was already a major bat then. And I gave several other names. Point is he was surrounded by mostly accumulators for much of his career until the last phase.
Coronis
International Coach
Really? Does Kallis look like a major bat here or just one of a number of bats around the same level. (Rhodes Retirement)
Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com
And shock horror his strike rate actually rose when he was the best batsmen in his team and surrounded by better batsman than his early career? Like, he could actually let loose a bit? That’s insane Jacques! How dare thee hurt your team like that. And yet Dravid had a stronger lineup pretty much the entirety of his career, never became more aggressive and never gets any criticism.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Fine it's fair to not penalise slow batting of Kallis in early career but Kallis became worldclass 99 onwards and had a more regular aggressive lineup around him 2008 onwards.Really? Does Kallis look like a major bat here or just one of a number of bats around the same level. (Rhodes Retirement)
Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com
stats.espncricinfo.com
And shock horror his strike rate actually rose when he was the best batsmen in his team and surrounded by better batsman than his early career? Like, he could actually let loose a bit? That’s insane Jacques! How dare thee hurt your team like that. And yet Dravid had a stronger lineup pretty much the entirety of his career, never became more aggressive and never gets any criticism.
Dravid played a particular anchor role for the other more aggressive batters to bat around.
akilana
International 12th Man
The author’s nationality has nothing to with it lol
akilana
International 12th Man
Are you saying others made for up Dravid slow batting? So how’s it a credit for Dravid? Even with his slow batting he featured heavily in some of Indians best wins unlike more aggressive sachin.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
No that Dravid played an anchor role and let others bat around him.
There is some data missing, but his SR was around 54
sayon basak
International Captain
More than Kallis.
Fuller Pilch
Hall of Fame Member
No brainer.
The batting allrounders give so many options to either win or draw tests.
These SR dates that you have picked pretty much exactly match the (percieved or real) strength of the RSA top/middle order. Pure trash until 98. Decent, but still a perception of fragility until Smith debuted in 2002. Beastly strong after about 2009 when Amla and AB hit form.
What relevance do you think the team's SR had? The average counts more. See above. I honestly wouldn't have a clue if this was praise or criticism, if it didn't come from you.
RSA was a team that always played for draws and series results. They weren't rated as one of the top modern teams at the end of the Kallis era because they were blanking teams. It was because they were generating series results through drawing some and winning others.