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Choose combo : Viv & Sachin vs Sobers & Kallis

Sachin & Viv vs Sobers & Kallis

  • Total voters
    26
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
Bolo. said:
You don't seem to be considering the fact that there are 2 of them.

Kallis + Sobers is 4.3 WPM. That's more than a bunch of ATGs. The worst bowler in the average team is probably a bit over 3.

You have them peaking at 2 different stages in careers, so you can give more of the bowling to whoever is better at that stage. Peak ICC rankings of 6 and 5 FTR. Both of them were outstanding at peak in relation to the typical worst bowler in an average team.

Variety of 2 bowlers vs one and the ability to pick which will work better, plus the ability to bowl whoever is in good rythm more.
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I was going to rebut this because I think you might be overrating them, but upon reflection, I do think Kallis and Sobers combined can take up a 4th bowling role as they are likely to be collectively as good as a 4th bowler in an average team, or not dramatically worse.

So that does allow an extra bat in their team, which I think gives their combo the edge over Sachin and Viv. So I agree.
 
kyear2

kyear2

International Coach
DrWolverine said:
Not sure if fielding is such a big deal.

Small gap in batting vs Big gap in bowling is accurate
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Only thing is that in an average team, having them as your 4th and 4th bowlers isn't that great of an advantage.

Sobers would be at his best when he isn't shouldering that huge of a bowling burden. Only advantage of playing both is to try to split that workload.

The fielding advantage is greater because now you have all world performers in your slip cordon.
 
kyear2

kyear2

International Coach
capt_Luffy said:
I will say I have them close overall, but think Kallis is a tier below the others while SRT a bit ahead of Garry. So I think that "no bowling", where I don't need to think how much I will gain from having 2 decent 5th bowlers (don't really want Sobers to be 4th) over clearly superior batting is easier.
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Again I will ask what is "the bit" that he's above Sir Garry.
 
kyear2

kyear2

International Coach
subshakerz said:
Sour grapes. Please dispute the fact given on how his SR doesn't really lift once he scores a ton.

Kallis wasn't the type to dominate attacks. What's the harm in admitting it?
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I never said he could, and I don't rate him along with the other 3 in the comparison, but the article had a deliberate agenda and went at it hard.
 
Johan

Johan

International Captain
What Sachin has over Sobers

  1. Home pitches in the 90s/early 2000s were spicier
  2. Batting position
  3. longevity
  4. more proven against spin
what Sobers has over Sachin
  1. Prime, a decade of averaging 70+
  2. More dominant, known to be able to dominate serieses and matches.
  3. Never struggled with any pacer
  4. Average is a decent bit higher without minnows
 
kyear2

kyear2

International Coach
capt_Luffy said:
Batting position, home pitches, slight longevity.
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Yes batting position, but Sobers more than proved himself at 3 and 4, so miniscule at most.

Sachin's home pitches were that great for pace even in the 90's, and were flat everywhere in the 2000's, so again. Nothing there.

Sobers played for 20 years, that's more than enough.
 
capt_Luffy

capt_Luffy

International Coach
kyear2 said:
Yes batting position, but Sobers more than proved himself at 3 and 4, so miniscule at most.

Sachin's home pitches were that great for pace even in the 90's, and were flat everywhere in the 2000's, so again. Nothing there.

Sobers played for 20 years, that's more than enough.
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It's not proving oneself, Sobers did plenty of that. Batting at top is just harder.

Sobers' home pitches were really Really batting friendly. 90s India were plenty pace friendly, no Indian pacer with 3+ wickets in the 90s averages 32+

It's not about proving, again. Playing longer just lets to stats deteriotion. For eg: 1992-2011 is a 20 year stretch Sachin averaged almost 60
 
Coronis

Coronis

International Coach
subshakerz said:
And I'm not sure why you have such a reaction.

The article is simply saying that Dravid playing the holding position in a lineup of strokemakers is less damaging than Kallis being an accumulator in a lineup on of accumulators.
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Because its literally not true? He didn’t play in a “lineup of accumulators”
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
Coronis said:
Because its literally not true? He didn’t play in a “lineup of accumulators”
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Until Kallis late stage career it generally was mostly accumulators.

Guys like Kirsten, Dippenar, Cronje, Rhodes, Cullinan, McKenzie, Rudolph, Prince. Exceptions would Smith and maybe Gibbs.
 
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