Choose combo : Viv & Sachin vs Sobers & Kallis

[subshakerz]

This is ****ing stupid fyi. Apparently guys like Smith and AB are grafters. There’d be no discernible difference in the SR of their teammates without Sehwag’s influence imo.

Smith isn't a grafter, he is reasonably aggressive.

And I'm not sure why you have such a reaction.

The article is simply saying that Dravid playing the holding position in a lineup of strokemakers is less damaging than Kallis being an accumulator in a lineup on of accumulators.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

I don’t think so. Sachin & Viv would win easily.

Let’s say Sachin is 10. Sobers would be 9.8 or 9. Viv would be 9.8. Kallis would be 9.3.

Query, if Sachin is a 10, what on earth is Bradman??

 

[Johan]

Query, if Sachin is a 10, what on earth is Bradman??

19

 

[sayon basak]

Query, if Sachin is a 10, what on earth is Bradman??

Bradman would be 99.94 imo.

 

[DrWolverine]

Query, if Sachin is a 10, what on earth is Bradman??

15 on a scale of 1-10

 

[subshakerz]

Not a poor one as well. Was a very safe fielder despite not being special.

Yes. The fielding thing is being unnecessarily hyped.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

 

[kyear2]

Small gap in batting vs big gap in fielding.

Plus you get Sobers and Kallis fresh for batting- they might end up the better batting pair.

This.

 

[kyear2]

Viv was a pretty gun fielder

Yes he was.

Jim and Sobers having a fielding edge, but Kallis and Sobers having the catching edge.

Viv wasn't far behind them, but Tendulkar isn't in the conversation.

 

[DrWolverine]

Not sure if fielding is such a big deal.

Small gap in batting vs Big gap in bowling is accurate

 

[kyear2]

This is ****ing stupid fyi. Apparently guys like Smith and AB are grafters. There’d be no discernible difference in the SR of their teammates without Sehwag’s influence imo.

While there's a some (small) merit to what was said, most of that article was a blatant hit piece and stripped of credibility. Especially trying to excuse Dravid for being even slower that Jacques.

Jacques wasn't the batsman the other 3 are, and he had his limitations, he wasn't light years apart and can still be argued to be a top 15 batsman.

 

[kyear2]

Eh.... Tertiary skill gap in fielding isn't really that significant really; nowhere close to make this much close personally.

Sobers is a top 5 of so slip and overall fielder if all time, Kallis a top 10 slip. Richards also a top 10 fielder of all time and arguable top 15 slip.

Tendulkar isn't in the ball park for either. Like not in the same zip code.

 

[Bolo.]

Eh.... Tertiary skill gap in fielding isn't really that significant really; nowhere close to make this much close personally.

I don't think it's that significant either. But I do think the batting is close, and you wouldn't need a significant amount of runs saved per innings to potentially bridge the gap. Or to be at least somewhat close for those (without a chip on their shoulder) who think the gap is bigger than me.

And this is without the (obviously unprovable, but extremely plausible) possibly of their batting improving.

In contrast, including the bowling is just a massacre. As bowlers, Kallis + Sobers are a long way ahead of the average 4th bowler in the average team. You could drop a bowler, play an extra specialist bat and have a significant advantage in all 3 disciplines. That's not close.

 

[subshakerz]

Not sure if fielding is such a big deal.

Small gap in batting vs Big gap in bowling is accurate

Yes but the impact of that big gap in bowling I would argue is smaller than the impact of the small gap in batting.

 

[capt_Luffy]

I don't think it's that significant either. But I do think the batting is close, and you wouldn't need a significant amount of runs saved per innings to potentially bridge the gap. Or to be at least somewhat close for those (without a chip on their shoulder) who think the gap is bigger than me.

And this is without the (obviously unprovable, but extremely plausible) possibly of their batting improving.

In contrast, including the bowling is just a massacre. As bowlers, Kallis + Sobers are a long way ahead of the average 4th bowler in the average team. You could drop a bowler, play an extra specialist bat and have a significant advantage in all 3 disciplines. That's not close.

I will say I have them close overall, but think Kallis is a tier below the others while SRT a bit ahead of Garry. So I think that "no bowling", where I don't need to think how much I will gain from having 2 decent 5th bowlers (don't really want Sobers to be 4th) over clearly superior batting is easier.

 

[Johan]

Sachin ~ Viv >~ Sobers >(>) Kallis in batting. You can place the first three in whatever order you want to place them in though.

 

[reyrey]

This is ****ing stupid fyi. Apparently guys like Smith and AB are grafters. There’d be no discernible difference in the SR of their teammates without Sehwag’s influence imo.

Kirsten, Prince, Rudolph, Mckenzie, Rhodes, Cronje might fall under the grafters category

 

[subshakerz]

In contrast, including the bowling is just a massacre. As bowlers, Kallis + Sobers are a long way ahead of the average 4th bowler in the average team. You could drop a bowler, play an extra specialist bat and have a significant advantage in all 3 disciplines. That's not close.

How are Kallis and Sobers ahead of a 4th bowler?

Kallis with his bowling load certainly is not.

And Sobers taking 2WPM is barely that level or likely below. However if we are suggesting he take the 4th bowler place permanently and we accept an extra bat, I can consider the duo better.

 

[subshakerz]

While there's a some (small) merit to what was said, most of that article was a blatant hit piece and stripped of credibility. Especially trying to excuse Dravid for being even slower that Jacques.

Sour grapes. Please dispute the fact given on how his SR doesn't really lift once he scores a ton.

Kallis wasn't the type to dominate attacks. What's the harm in admitting it?

 

[Bolo.]

How are Kallis and Sobers ahead of a 4th bowler?

Kallis with his bowling load certainly is not.

And Sobers taking 2WPM is barely that level or likely below. However if we are suggesting he take the 4th bowler place permanently and we accept an extra bat, I can consider the duo better.

You don't seem to be considering the fact that there are 2 of them.

Kallis + Sobers is 4.3 WPM. That's more than a bunch of ATGs. The worst bowler in the average team is probably a bit over 3.

You have them peaking at 2 different stages in careers, so you can give more of the bowling to whoever is better at that stage. Peak ICC rankings of 6 and 5 FTR. Both of them were outstanding at peak in relation to the typical worst bowler in an average team.

Variety of 2 bowlers vs one and the ability to pick which will work better, plus the ability to bowl whoever is in good rythm more.