Can Sunil Narine become an all time great?

[Dan]

Yeah, look, I agree with the sentiment that not considering him for the full series is ridiculous, but you can understand leaving him out of game one.

I mean, we saw with Doug Bollinger and Michael Hussey that joining the team late after a T20 tournament isn't ideal. The formats are completely different and, IMO, suggesting that the IPL final is the best possible preparation for a Test series is laughable. It simply doesn't stack up with experience.

Chris Gayle flew in two days before a Test and didn't do so well. Format shift is hard; maybe less so for Narine compared to others, but it is difficult nonetheless. Wanting him to have a long preparation with the red ball to get into the right mindset is a fully justifiable perspective from the WICB. But using that to knock him out of the entire series is an absolute joke.

 

[G.I.Joe]

Yeah but it's only the one IPL game in this case; not a bilateral series through the whole tournament, for next to nothing, that would cost Narine all of his $700k contract.

Players are paid based on how many games they play, right? I think he'd earned 'a living' from all the group matches, and I don't see three Test matches combining to be worth that much less than a single IPL match fee.

Prizemoney would also come into it, I guess, but even then the loser of the match gets Rs 10 crores (Rs 15 crores for the winner). Now I have no idea what that means, but it doesn't seem to be that huge a difference -- especially after team owners take their cut.

I don't think Narine would be starving if he missed one IPL match to play three Tests, tbh.

That's not the point. It sets a precedent. IPL teams will be less likely to hire him, or will hire him for less than he's worth in future if they know that he's the sort to abandon the team at the most crucial juncture in their campaign.

 

[kyear2]

That's not the point. It sets a precedent. IPL teams will be less likely to hire him, or will hire him for less than he's worth in future if they know that he's the sort to abandon the team at the most crucial juncture in their campaign.

He is not abandoning this post, he is reporting to his primary job. It is apparently only the W.I. players who see the IPL as their primary responsibility.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

One thing for sure he isn't an all time great fielder. That dropped catch

 

[G.I.Joe]

He is not abandoning this post, he is reporting to his primary job. It is apparently only the W.I. players who see the IPL as their primary responsibility.

That's irrelevant to the IPL teams and to the players who are better suited to T20 than national cricket. The IPL teams pick players based on their availability to the IPL, in addition to other factors. If a player leaves his team at a crucial juncture, you can't blame the franchises for making note of it and lowering their demand for his services accordingly. As far as KKR were concerned, they were given the understanding that he would be available for the entire tournament. If Narine does not fulfil that part of the bargain, it is indeed an abandonment in their eyes. The IPL teams are not bound to follow your narrative.

 

[Hurricane]

Don't break WICB.

 

[Riggins]

Yeah, so if it's exclusively a monetary argument, Lasith Malinga wouldn't have ****ed off to England to play an ODI series. He would have hung around and been available for the rest of the IPL.

How many games did Malinga miss though? he'd still get a fair whack of his cash.

 

[Dan]

That's irrelevant to the IPL teams and to the players who are better suited to T20 than national cricket. The IPL teams pick players based on their availability to the IPL, in addition to other factors. If a player leaves his team at a crucial juncture, you can't blame the franchises for making note of it and lowering their demand for his services accordingly. As far as KKR were concerned, they were given the understanding that he would be available for the entire tournament. If Narine does not fulfil that part of the bargain, it is indeed an abandonment in their eyes. The IPL teams are not bound to follow your narrative.

Yeah, and this is why the entire time I've been arguing that the WICB are at fault for putting him in this ****ty position, and I haven't blamed Narine in the slightest. It shouldn't be his call whether he stays or goes -- the NOC should have expired at the time the WICB wanted him back. It didn't, so he gets put in a ridiculous position where he has to pick between the two. If the NOC was properly in place from the start, he wouldn't have the choice of staying on, hence couldn't be seen as abandoning the team. KKR would have known from Day 1 of the IPL that Narine wouldn't be there for the final if they made it.

As 'traditional' cricket fans, it would obviously be nice if he decided to sacrifice the IPL cash to represent his country. But as a West Indian player, being asked to miss the IPL final that he was instrumental in making, and who is far more suited to T20 cricket than Test cricket, it's pretty bloody rough to expect him to leave and condemn him for staying. I don't think anybody should be doing that; none of this is his fault.

Anyway, that post you initially quoted was exclusively responding to Furball's point about money.

 

[Riggins]

what the dickens does noc stand for anyway?

 

[Dan]

How many games did Malinga miss though? he'd still get a fair whack of his cash.

Malinga played 10 out of 15 matches, so yeah, still a large amount of money. Which is the point I'm making. Narine would have played, what, 15 of 16 matches if he missed the final, so he'd still get the vast majority of his cash. After playing 10 IPL games Malinga could more than afford to take the pay cut to go play the ODI series in England. Narine, after playing 15 IPL games, could more than afford to take the pay cut to go play the Test series.

For Malinga, missing those 5 games didn't mean he'd be unable to 'make a living' by going back to play for SL. Same would go for Narine.

Obviously the entire situation is far more complicated than simple economics, but I can't see how Furball could assert that he has to play the final to 'make a living'.

 

[Prince EWS]

Anyway, that post you initially quoted was exclusively responding to Furball's point about money.

Joe's point after quoting that initial post was exclusively about money too. He was saying that the opportunity cost of not playing the IPL final isn't just what he would've been paid for that game less what he gets paid for the Test series, but also the amount his market value drops at the auction once IPL teams know he's going to prioritise Test cricket in the event of a clash of any sort.

He's protecting his long-term earnings. I'm not really sure that has anything to do with his decision in the slightest, but from a financial perspective Joe is spot on there.

 

[Dan]

what the dickens does noc stand for anyway?

No Objection Certificate.

A national board issues one to the player if they want to go and play in another country's domestic comp, basically saying they're cool with their player having a hit there, and that they want them back by a certain date. Sri Lanka quite notably refused to issue one to Thisara Perera last year IIRC, because they wanted him to stay home and work on his Test game rather than jet around the world playing T20s.

 

[Prince EWS]

Sri Lanka quite notably refused to issue one to Thisara Perera last year IIRC, because they wanted him to stay home and work on his Test game rather than jet around the world playing T20s.

It was a ballsy move given they don't actually bother paying their contracted players half the time.

 

[Dan]

Joe's point after quoting that initial post was exclusively about money too. He was saying that the opportunity cost of not playing the IPL final isn't just what he would've been paid for that game less what he gets paid for the Test side, but also the amount his market value drops at the auction once IPL teams know he's going to prioritise Test cricket in the event of a clash of any sort.

He's protecting his long-term earnings. I'm not really sure that has anything to do with his decision in the slightest, but from a financial perspective Joe is spot on there.

Yeah, but this situation shouldn't ever happen again; it should be a one-off because the West Indies Cricket Board can't read a calendar and issue a No Objection Certificate correctly. Players come and go in the IPL all the time due to international commitments without it devaluing them, because the decision to leave is always entirely out of their hands.

And if he does end up devalued and, oh the terror, he only gets $500k instead of $700k at auction next time, I don't think he's suddenly going to be incapable of putting food on the table for his family. That's still a pretty damn good 'living' to be earned, considering his WICB contract is $120k.

 

[Hurricane]

Yeah - this is a minor point - but if he had've played the NZ test series and taken a tenfer - his auction value would have gone up somewhat anyway because your auction value is a factor of a) how good you are at T20 b) how big is your brand name as a cricket player. With admittedly more emphasis being on point a.

 

[Furball]

Yeah, but this situation shouldn't ever happen again; it should be a one-off because the West Indies Cricket Board can't read a calendar and issue a No Objection Certificate correctly. Players come and go in the IPL all the time due to international commitments without it devaluing them, because the decision to leave is always entirely out of their hands.

And if he does end up devalued and, oh the terror, he only gets $500k instead of $700k at auction next time, I don't think he's suddenly going to be incapable of putting food on the table for his family. That's still a pretty damn good 'living' to be earned, considering his WICB contract is $120k.

Good luck persuading anyone to give up $200k, particularly when that figure's almost double the annual salary in your "real" job.

 

[Hurricane]

Good luck persuading anyone to give up $200k, particularly when that figure's almost double the annual salary in your "real" job.

Baz is a better T20 player than he is a test player (has a higher international batting average than Gayle) and he was faced with a quandary some years ago about whether to play more IPL games or turn up for a NZ tour and he chose his country over the money. I think Dan was involved as well. They all complained a lot but then turned out for NZ in the end and forewent the salary. So not "everyone" would take the money. Whether it was a $200K decision I couldn't tell you but it was enough that they tried to negotiate over it.

 

[hendrix]

And yet if Otago ever makes it to the Champion's Trophy and CSK is involved, McCullum will turn out for CSK.

 

[Hurricane]

This next post is not that serious so don't get wound up by it. It is just a certain perspective to present the WICB's side of the coin.

Part of me is not impressed with Sunil Narine. He has chosen money over representing his country. He should treat representing his country as a great honour rather than choosing to be a cricketing hired gun who will play for the highest bidder. Where is this man's national pride. The West Indies is a proud proud cricketing nation that used to be the strongest in the world. I would personally do anything to serve my country on the sporting field. I used to dream just of making Northern Districts and wearing a maroon cap. I didn't even let myself dream of aspiring to the blackcaps even as an 9 year old. I can't relate to a new generation of cricketers who don't share a value system that it is important to serve something bigger than yourself and contribute to your community.

Damn Straight Ponting would not have made this decision even if he was a good T20 player. Steve Waugh wouldn't think for a second. And Alan Border would probably punch you in the eye for even raising the question with him. And if you think that is hyperbole talk to Tim Zoehrer who ended up with black eye after having a "captain's chat".

The WICB is making their strong stand on this issue because they expect their players to value playing for their country and are deeply dissapointed in Narine.

 

[Maximas]

Yeah, but this situation shouldn't ever happen again; it should be a one-off because the West Indies Cricket Board can't read a calendar and issue a No Objection Certificate correctly.

As I've said before, this situation is more complex than what you're describing. Originally, the WICB wanted all the players back by the 24th of May, realising this was unreasonable after some players including Narine asked for extensions, the board extended it to June 1, because it appeared that KKR wouldn't make the final. To the surprise of many, they won about 8 games in a row and made the final, causing the dispute, the clear solution was to allow Narine to play due to the special circumstances and not **** up like that again, but they burdened Narine with the choice and this is what's happened. So yes it's incompetent from WICB but pretty much the worst case scenario has eventuated unfortunately for them, lol.

And if he does end up devalued and, oh the terror, he only gets $500k instead of $700k at auction next time, I don't think he's suddenly going to be incapable of putting food on the table for his family. That's still a pretty damn good 'living' to be earned, considering his WICB contract is $120k.

Cricketers have a short life-span as professionals, and it's understandable that they want to set themselves and their families up for life while they have a solid and dependable income.