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Can Sunil Narine become an all time great?

NUFAN

Y no Afghanistan flag
But NUFAN, he's also currently employed by the WICB. So with this conflict, by being 'loyal' to one of his current employers he, by definition, has to be 'disloyal' to the other.

Oh if only we had a regulation to suggest which team takes precedence...


At the end of the day, I can't believe that nobody in the WICB is capable of reading a calendar. Utter incompetence to issue a NOC for the entirety of the IPL when you want him back the day before the end of the IPL. The WICB ****ed up and they're paying the price for it, though admittedly it would be nice for Narine to voluntarily reaffirm his commitment to Test match cricket and the West Indies as a whole.
Sometimes I wish I just posted more clearly and not be open to disagreement so I don't get myself into this situations.

Sunil Narine is currently just being loyal to one of his current employers, KKR. The place where he makes the majority of his money and where he is currently playing. He is being loyal to the organisation and his teammates currently and I don't blame him in this instance for staying for the Final. Narine is not being loyal to WICB, his principal employer, but the place where he receives less money and is about to participate in a series in his worst format, if he is selected (which he probably will be).

Are you guys (especially Howsie) happier with this response.
 

Dan

Hall of Fame Member
I think we've been talking past each other tbh.

I don't think anyone, at any point, has denied that Narine is employed by KKR, or that he's not being loyal to them. I mean, I'm constantly making the point that this is all a WICB ****-up, not Narine's fault at all.
 

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
But NUFAN, he's also currently employed by the WICB. So with this conflict, by being 'loyal' to one of his current employers he, by definition, has to be 'disloyal' to the other.

Oh if only we had a regulation to suggest which team takes precedence...
Hmmm, an ICC regulation?

Does KKR not come under ICC regulations?
 

kyear2

International Coach
The conflict with the final is unfortunate and the stance by the board inflexible and equally unfortunate, But Sunil should have left to be in the Caribbean. By staying in India he clearly shows where his loyalties and priorities lay. Would a Ponting or Sangakkara have stayed on to play in the IPL over reporting to their home countries? No.
 

Hurricane

Hall of Fame Member
The conflict with the final is unfortunate and the stance by the board inflexible and equally unfortunate, But Sunil should have left to be in the Caribbean. By staying in India he clearly shows where his loyalties and priorities lay. Would a Ponting or Sangakkara have stayed on to play in the IPL over reporting to their home countries? No.
Perfect post.
 

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
The conflict with the final is unfortunate and the stance by the board inflexible and equally unfortunate, But Sunil should have left to be in the Caribbean. By staying in India he clearly shows where his loyalties and priorities lay. Would a Ponting or Sangakkara have stayed on to play in the IPL over reporting to their home countries? No.
Ponting and Sangakkarra were awful t20 players and ATG test players.

Hardly fair.
 

Maximas

Cricketer Of The Year
In any case, who are we to say where Narine's priorities should and shouldn't be, he's arguably the world's best t20 bowler and there are people saying he shouldn't play the final of the biggest franchise t20 league in the world.

Sanga isn't an awful t20 players btw
 

Daemon

Request Your Custom Title Now!
In any case, who are we to say where Narine's priorities should and shouldn't be, he's arguably the world's best t20 bowler and there are people saying he shouldn't play the final of the biggest franchise t20 league in the world.

Sanga isn't an awful t20 players btw
We're not telling him where his priorities should be, but you can't deny that he has an inclination to the format he's better in and gives it more importance.
 

Maximas

Cricketer Of The Year
We're not telling him where his priorities should be, but you can't deny that he has an inclination to the format he's better in and gives it more importance.
Firstly...

But Sunil should have left to be in the Caribbean.
I should've made it clear that was what I was really responding too.

And regarding your second point, I'm not entirely sure, but perhaps you're right, however even if that is the case, that is no reason for him to be discarded entirely from a test squad, I assume he still wants to play test cricket outside of his t20 commitments, and that could've been easily arranged if the board had been more flexible.
 

Furball

Evil Scotsman
The conflict with the final is unfortunate and the stance by the board inflexible and equally unfortunate, But Sunil should have left to be in the Caribbean. By staying in India he clearly shows where his loyalties and priorities lay. Would a Ponting or Sangakkara have stayed on to play in the IPL over reporting to their home countries? No.
Ponting earned more from representing Australia though.
 

Dan

Hall of Fame Member
Well it is. These guys have to earn a living ffs.
Yeah but it's only the one IPL game in this case; not a bilateral series through the whole tournament, for next to nothing, that would cost Narine all of his $700k contract.

Players are paid based on how many games they play, right? I think he'd earned 'a living' from all the group matches, and I don't see three Test matches combining to be worth that much less than a single IPL match fee.

Prizemoney would also come into it, I guess, but even then the loser of the match gets Rs 10 crores (Rs 15 crores for the winner). Now I have no idea what that means, but it doesn't seem to be that huge a difference -- especially after team owners take their cut.

I don't think Narine would be starving if he missed one IPL match to play three Tests, tbh.
 

Riggins

International Captain
Players are paid based on how many games they play, right? I think he'd earned 'a living' from all the group matches, and I don't see three Test matches combining to be worth that much less than a single IPL match fee.
Pretty sure that part of the payment is based on how many they are available for. Obviously it's the same in this case though.
 

Furball

Evil Scotsman
Yeah but it's only the one IPL game in this case; not a bilateral series through the whole tournament, for next to nothing, that would cost Narine all of his $700k contract.

Players are paid based on how many games they play, right? I think he'd earned 'a living' from all the group matches, and I don't see three Test matches combining to be worth that much less than a single IPL match fee.

Prizemoney would also come into it, I guess, but even then the loser of the match gets Rs 10 crores (Rs 15 crores for the winner). Now I have no idea what that means, but it doesn't seem to be that huge a difference -- especially after team owners take their cut.

I don't think Narine would be starving if he missed one IPL match to play three Tests, tbh.
That one IPL game is the tournament final though.

I don't give a **** about the IPL; couldn't tell you anything about what's happened this year but I know if I was a player who'd worked hard through the previous 14 or whatever games to get to a final I wouldn't be terribly happy about missing out on the glory of a final win.
 

Dan

Hall of Fame Member
Yeah, so if it's exclusively a monetary argument, Lasith Malinga wouldn't have ****ed off to England to play an ODI series. He would have hung around and been available for the rest of the IPL.

Only the Australians, English and maybe the South African centrally-contracted players earn enough to be able to leave the IPL early without it significantly denting their bank balance. But we rarely see players stick with the IPL over international series - because their boards are capable of filling out the bloody NOC paperwork correctly and the ICC has international > domestix rules.

You can't really blame Narine for sticking with KKR -- he wants to see the tournament through to the end, it's only one game, he'd still be back in time to play the Test and, let's face it, he's got a far more secure career in T20 than Test cricket and earns a **** ton more money doing so. As a rational, self-interested actor, it'd be stupid not to stay at the IPL. At the end of the day, the WICB is at fault for giving him an NOC that extended beyond how long they were willing for him to represent KKR, and then failing to compromise after realising their mistake. Knocking him out for the entire series is a ludicrous power trip that will only push the guys who can command big T20 money away from West Indian cricket.

But at the same time, as cricket fans, it's disappointing to see him making a choice that -- rightly or wrongly (I suggest the latter) -- prevents him from representing his country in the traditional form of the game, testing his skills in the original and the best format. I mean, I don't like the guy and I don't rate him that highly in the whites, but it's a shame to see players unavailable when, for all intents and purposes, he should be able to play.

Plus his hopeful failure would reaffirm Test cricket's place as a better format than T20 :p
 

WindieWeathers

International Regular
Well this is not over by a long shot lads...the pressure is starting to build on the board to allow Sunny to play!!..

T&T sports minister pleads Narine's case

June 1, 2014

Leaving out Sunil Narine, according to T&T sports minister Anil Roberts, will hurt West Indies' chances of winning the Test series against New Zealand

Anil Roberts, Trinidad and Tobago's sports minister, has urged the WICB to rethink its decision to rule Sunil Narine out of consideration for the Test series against New Zealand, which starts in Jamaica on June 8. Set a June 1 deadline to join West Indies' pre-series camp, Narine chose to stay on in India and represent Kolkata Knight Riders in the IPL final.

In a letter to WICB president Dave Cameron, Roberts said Narine's decision did not flout the board's stated "West Indies first" policy.

"I put it to you today that allowing Sunil Narine to participate in the final of the IPL on June 1 as a West Indian, as a "Trinbagonian", as an ambassador of Caribbean brilliance and then ensuring that he arrives at the West Indian training camp post haste does not, will not, and cannot breach any of the tenets of your "country first policy"," Roberts wrote.

"In fact, this addendum to the policy which may serve Sunil Narine today, will serve Chris Gayle, Kieron Pollard, Dwayne Smith, Lendl Simmons, Krishmar Santokie and any other great West Indies Cricketers in the future.

"Mr. Narine is not on holiday with his family, he is not shopping, and he is not viewing the NBA Playoffs. He is plying his professional trade in what stands as the epitome of international quality cricket in the world today.

"He is plying that trade not for himself but for the people of the Caribbean who will turn on their TV sets and tune in with 1.3 billion people across the globe to support the West Indian Sunil Narine."

Playing the IPL final, Roberts argued, would be the best way for Narine to prepare for the Test series.

"Therefore, for us to ask any player to forego the opportunity to grasp greatness to attend the first few days of a training camp is itself in breach of the very policy that it is designed to uphold, for there can be no greater preparation or training, than plying your trade at peak adrenalin, peak emotional levels, peak risk factors, peak psychological levels," Roberts wrote.

"He will face peak global scrutiny against the peak global performers in a final to be crowned the best in the world. Sunil Narine, on 1st June, will be at his peak performance level.

"So on the contrary, Mr. Sunil Narine, by clawing and fighting his way into the final is in fact ahead of the curve as compared to his other West Indies team mates in terms of preparation for the upcoming home series."

Excluding Narine from the squad, Roberts said, would hurt West Indies' chances of winning the Test series.

"Dear Sir, our beloved West Indies team … has been unable over the past decade to take twenty wickets in five days on a consistent basis. This in essence is what is needed to win a Test match," Roberts wrote.

"To achieve this, a globally respected strike bowler is required. Sunil Narine fits this bill to a "T" and is now arguably the number one bowler in the world. He is also still regarded as a mystery spinner, who the best in the world have been unable to figure out, even in this age of modern technology and systematic analysis.

"The inclusion of Sunil Narine increases the chances of the West Indies team of taking 20 wickets in five days to win a Test match."
Link

So the Trinidad sports minister has already chipped in and so are the trinidad cricket board from what i'm lead to believe.


The Narine conundrum Nineteen years ago Desmond Haynes failed to meet a WICB deadline and never played another Test. Now Narine finds himself in the eye of the storm

Tony Cozier

June 1, 2014


There are striking similarities in the West Indies Cricket Board's suspension of Sunil Narine for the forthcoming home Tests against New Zealand and that of Desmond Haynes 19 years ago, prior to the 1995 series against Australia.

Both involve the players' failure to meet a deadline for returning to the Caribbean, in Narine's case for the squad's preparatory training camp, in Haynes' for all matches in the domestic first-class tournament (then the Red Stripe Cup).

Narine has chosen to remain with the Kolkata Knight Riders for today's final of the Indian Premier League; Haynes, at the time a professional with Western Province in South Africa's Castle Cup, missed only one match, Barbados' first.

Each pleaded his case for dispensation; each was turned down by an inflexible board that pointed out that its relevant regulation was in place for good reason and was known by both.

The WICB's director of cricket, Richard Pybus, asserted on Friday that Narine's ineligibility for the three New Zealand Tests was in keeping with the "West Indies First" policy approved by its directors in March.

"The onus of the WICB is to protect the integrity of international cricket at all times," he said. "International cricket, and specifically Test cricket, is priority and requires dedicated preparation which is integral to team success. The WICB policy requires players to commit to sufficient preparation leading into a series as part of a culture of excellence."

The reasons for Haynes' issue were similar, if a little broader.

The words of Stephen Camacho, the board's CEO at the time, almost exactly echo Pybus'. He pointed out that the regulation that led to Haynes' suspension had been in place since 1983 and was "guided by its commitment to its sponsor and, more particularly, its responsibility for the long-term development of West Indies cricket.

"Now, more than ever, it is essential that the best players participate in our domestic programme where possible so as to enhance and protect the quality of our game," he added.

The Haynes issue immediately set off furious debate. He had, after all, played 116 Tests, more than any other West Indian at the time. He was an outstanding opening batsman, one half of the renowned partnership with Gordon Greenidge in the golden era of West Indies cricket.

The contemporary West Indies captain Richie Richardson asked that "special consideration be given". The Barbados Cricket Association successfully pressed for a review but the original decision was upheld by a committee of three. Radio talk shows and newspaper columns were filled with comment, mostly critical of the board, which held its ground.

Haynes never played another Test. He subsequently took legal action against the board that dragged on for seven years before it was settled out of court; by then, the all-matches requirement had been dropped.

It is unlikely the present situation will end Narine's fledgling career of six Tests; it will, almost certainly, generate reaction comparable to the furore on Haynes.

Narine may not, as yet, measure up to Haynes' formidable statistical record but he is a highly regarded spinner with a mysterious mixture of deliveries that have bamboozled the finest batsmen in the game's shortened versions to the extent that he is ranked by the ICC as the No. 2 bowler in T20 Internationals and No. 3 in one-dayers.

When the West Indies board gave Chris Gayle permission to extend his IPL stay in 2009, he arrived in London two days before the first Test. Such an arrangement brought the WICB heavy criticism; its contrary decision on Narine is also likely to be condemned

His overall record in his six Tests is far less impressive (21 wickets at 40.52) but, in his only three Tests against the same New Zealanders who he would otherwise have engaged with in the series that starts in Kingston next Sunday, he has taken 18 wickets at 24.33.

Like Haynes, who was active with Western Province prior to his belated return, it is not that Narine has been twiddling his thumbs in the past six weeks. What he has been twiddling are his fingers that impart the confusing each-way turn that have made him one of the leading wicket-takers and the most economical bowler in the IPL (of those who have played at least five matches) and helped propel Knight Riders to the final.

As for his fitness, T20 is a very distant relation to Test cricket but the IPL provides intense competition and franchises look after their players with top international coaches, trainers and physiotherapists.

So why would the WICB stick so inflexibly to its position?

This is the first Test of the "West Indies First" policy and it is obviously not inclined to give in on it at first time of asking. Other considerations would have influenced its intransigence. When it gave Chris Gayle, captain at the time, permission to extend his stay for one more IPL match in 2009, he arrived in London two days before the first Test at Lord's. Such an arrangement brought the WICB heavy criticism; its contrary decision on Narine is also likely to be condemned, a case of damned if it does and damned if it doesn't.

Another underlying factor was likely to have featured.

It was the recent assertion by Ernest Hilaire, who resigned as the WICB's chief executive two years ago, that "the bold initiatives required to fix regional cricket were often thwarted by pressure from territorial boards" during his term.

He charged that "insularity and narrow nationalism" continued to permeate West Indies cricket.

"There comes a time when some people believe the consequences of re-organising and restructuring is too much for them and therefore they want to go back to the old order and that's what we keep doing in West Indies cricket," he had said in a television interview.

Such attitudes led to the rejection of the main points in the 2007 report on restructuring of the WICB by a committee headed by the former Jamaica prime minister PJ Patterson. Another more recent paper, commissioned by then president Sir Julian Hunte and prepared by Queen's Counsel, Charles Wilkin, got the same treatment.

It is certainly not out of the question that Narine's home administration, the Trinidad & Tobago Cricket Board, would want to hear more about the reasons behind the WICB's decision. It might even ask for it to be reviewed, as the Barbados Cricket Association did in Haynes' case.

A new dispensation under president Dave Cameron has been in office for just over a year. As vice-president for six years, Cameron would have experienced the frustrations mentioned by Hilaire.

It will be instructive whether he now finds, as Hilaire did, that "the bold initiatives required to fix regional cricket (are) thwarted by pressure from territorial boards" and that, because of "insularity and narrow nationalism", Pybus' "West Indies First" initiative goes the way of others from Patterson and Wilkin.
Link


And Gambhir has chipped in aswell


Gambhir: It is unfair for Narine

The Kolkata Knight Riders’ skipper Gautam Gambhir has backed Sunil Narine’s decision to stay back and play the IPL final instead of making himself available for the three-match home Test series against New Zealand, beginning June 8.

The off-spinner was given a deadline of June 1 by the West Indies Cricket Board to join the preparatory camp in Bridgetown but with Knight Riders making it to the final, scheduled for Sunday, Narine intimated his inability to make it in time. Subsequently, the 26-year-old was left out of the Caribbean squad.

“It is unfair for the player,” said Gambhir, reflecting upon the controversy. “His team has reached the final and he is being forced to miss the final. Somewhere down the line, you as a cricketer don’t want to do that where you have taken the team to the final and you just walk away. It is just one game which is left and you have to leave that game. He has taken the right decision (to play the final).

“He wanted to continue playing for KKR because it is an important game, not a dead rubber.

Any player would have taken the (same) decision, so I completely support him. If I were to be in his position, I would have done the same thing,” he elaborated.

The WICB, meanwhile, said in a release that Narine’s decision not to join the camp by June 1 has resulted in him not being considered for selection to the West Indies squad for Tests.
Link

Like i said on the WI vs NZ thread...i would like to think when Narine returns to the Caribbean in one or two days time all parties can come together and have a talk about this...because the media and fans alike are NOT gonna let this go. The feeling is if he'd have chosen the IPL final on the same day as a test match then he would have been rightly condemned...but he's chosen the ipl final SEVEN DAYS before the test match, and to ban the guy for the entire series is just foolhardy...a simple fine would have been much better imo.

But this is just the start...the cricket tv and radio shows start from tomorrow so us fans will get to have a say...along with EX pros and media folks..so it should be interesting.
 

Dan

Hall of Fame Member
That one IPL game is the tournament final though.

I don't give a **** about the IPL; couldn't tell you anything about what's happened this year but I know if I was a player who'd worked hard through the previous 14 or whatever games to get to a final I wouldn't be terribly happy about missing out on the glory of a final win.
Yeah, but the point you made was exclusively related to money. I was responding to that and that alone; of course he'd want to be there for the final.

But, hypothetically, he could go home and spin the West Indies to a first Test victory, on the way to a 3-0 series sweep that atoned for the humiliation suffered during the corresponding away tour. That'd be pretty satisfying as well IMO.
 

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