Can Steyn test the aussies ?

[grapedo]

Dunno, no-one's said Steyn has no control. That grapedo idiot might have thought someone did, but he appears to lack the ability to read as well as think so it's not terribly surprising.

So? Louw's pitiful, so far short of international class it's not funny.

Well done to him. Now let's see him do it more often.

you said at the top of the page that steyn dosen't have great control you ****ing stoner

 

[grapedo]

Hahahaha, "the bull**** just keeps coming" followed by that... none of which could really be more idiotic if you tried.

FTR, I have no blind hatred of ANY player, and I'm most certainly not Australian, nor an Australian fan - first time I've been mistaken for such for a long time in fact. Far more often I'm mistaken for someone with blind hatred of Australians. I have, however, had many reasons to think that South Africa are actually my favourite cricket team, though I'm certainly not South African either.

Well you might not, but I'm afraid that won't stop it happening. Because there's something called a "limit". You don't have to either know a player personally or have watched their development from 5 metres away rather than 1,000 miles away to know either that a limit exists to what ANY player can achieve, or roughly what such a limit for certain players is.

Steyn is not going to get taller than he is now, and he's not going to be able to bowl any faster than he can now. I see little reason to suspect his control of line will get much better either, because it's always been poor, and is no better now than ever, though his length has improved no end the last 2 years.

Steyn has made much of the improvement available to him. There are still things he could do, like learning to bowl a conventional inswinger and improving his reverse-swing skills. However, he's gone as far as he can in other respects. He has done this at an earlier age than most people. However many times you try saying it, all 25-year-olds are not the same.

Krejza obviously has much scope for improvement, though I think it highly unlikely he'll make much of such a thing, he's one of the worst bowlers to play Test cricket in recent times, though he is probably better than Nathan Hauritz, and to get better than that will take quite some doing.

BTW, saying Steyn has as much scope for improvement as Johnson or Krejza is pretty silly as well - Steyn is far better than either at the current time, so therefore has less that he can do to get better.

And well done again on making yourself look like a first-class pratt by accusing me of being a biased Australian. It's nice to have someone go completely against the grain from time to time though, useful evidence for those who accuse me of being biased against all that is Australian.

Hmmm that bolded part seems like someone said steyn dosen't have control to me stoner rich

 

[grapedo]

So next time don't make yourself look like a ****wit and say that no one said that Steyn dosen't have control when you said it yourself. Richard .... is.... a..... Wagga

 

[pasag]

Catch ya in a week.

 

[aussie]

Swervy do you only come to CW to argue with Richard?

. It would seem so, but damn what would Cricket Chat on CW be without Richard, you the best yo..

 

[Swervy]

Swervy do you only come to CW to argue with Richard?

go check that thread about Symonds, bumholes and monkeys.

Even though I havent been posting I do keep an eye out, and when I feel something is worthy of comment, I will make that comment. Just so happens that Richard being Richard, I feel compelled to comment

 

[Richard]

Swervy do you only come to CW to argue with Richard?

at this and that grapedo idiot.

Hopefully we won't be catching him\her in a week, but the bond21 experience suggests maybe we might. Won't bother replying to all those posts TBH.

 

[Manee]

Steyn is not going to get taller than he is now, and he's not going to be able to bowl any faster than he can now.

There are always strength related improvements to help a bowler get faster over a season (see Kabir Ali) as are there always biomechanical improvements to be made (see Steyn prior to and after stint at Essex).

 

[Polo23]

And no, Steyn doesn't have "great" control at all. Hence he concedes a lot of runs most of the time. This doesn't particularly matter, but it's the way things are.

So you say Lee was "hitting good areas last year" yet you keep going on about how expensive Steyn is, and how he has no capacity to change that (even though he really isn't that expensive at all).

Over the last year in test cricket Lee is going at 3.15rpo and Steyn is going at 3.34, so if Lee was hitting good areas, what was Steyn doing?

 

[Richard]

Try actually looking at the individual games, not just broadly grouping together stuff which doesn't actually go together well at all.

Lee's economy-rates for the most part have been good; Steyn's for the most part have been expensive. Steyn's looked more likely to strike (due in part to the fact he's often faced weaker batting units) but he's almost always looked more likely to go for runs.

There've been the odd few games, however, where he's pared it back well and got good economy-rates.

 

[Polo23]

Again, I completely disagree. Steyn bowls an incredibly attacking line and length whereas Lee bowls an Australian "back of a length", one is far more condusive to going for runs yet he manages to keep his economy rates at a pretty decent level considering.

Steyn is far and away the best quick in the world at the moment, and I fully expect him to keep getting better. If he continues to keep going how he's going, he'll be a world great in no time.

 

[tooextracool]

Tbh, I think its more a case of 'will he test the aussies?' as opposed to 'can he test the aussies?'.

 

[Richard]

Again, I completely disagree. Steyn bowls an incredibly attacking line and length whereas Lee bowls an Australian "back of a length", one is far more condusive to going for runs yet he manages to keep his economy rates at a pretty decent level considering.

Bowlers of Lee and Steyn's relatively short stature and thus low trajectory have an extremely limited scope to bowl "back of a length" without straying too short so as they can be pulled and cut. The margin-for-error is tiny, mostly to bowl consistently back-of-length and do it well you need to be pretty tall. For Lee to manage to do this for a whole year was one hell of an effort, I didn't really think he had it in him until he pulled it off. We'll wait and see whether he can continue to do it, and I'm nowhere near so certain of that as some people are.

Steyn has yet to demonstrate the ability to do it, and as I say, I think to try would be a hindrance to him. He's far better-served to just not worry about his economy-rate. His economy-rate is poor, but this doesn't matter if you can attack as successfully as he has for the last 2-and-a-bit years.

Steyn is far and away the best quick in the world at the moment, and I fully expect him to keep getting better. If he continues to keep going how he's going, he'll be a world great in no time.

Steyn is not "far and away the best seamer at the moment", though if he's not the best he's damn close. He hasn't got a massive amount that he can do to get better, though, and about all he can hope to do is keep doing what he's been doing so far.

 

[Manee]

Lee delivers the ball from a good height though, with that front leg as straight as it is. Steyns is violently bent.

 

[Richard]

Oh hell yeah, that certainly doesn't help, but even with maximum use of all he's got, Lee's trajectory is still low and he doesn't get exceptional bounce. Hence his margin-for-error in length is much smaller than someone like Glenn McGrath or Andy Caddick.

 

[aussie]

Brett Lee test matches in Asia, 14 wickets @ 65 in 9 tests (2 tests against Bangladesh, 3 Pakistan, 4 India)…

Dale Steyn test matches in Asia, 46 wickets @ 21.58 in 9 tests (2 tests against Bangladesh, 2 Pakistan, 2 Sri Lanka, 3 India)…

Although Lee will obviously not go down the all-time great category of fast bowlers, i can see in the future his sub-continent record being seriously ridiculed because of the just concluded India series is his first real sub-continent test as a top-quality test match bowler & he is 32, so he won't really get a chance to redeem himself.

So hopefully people realise that when judging him in the future especially if he get his groove back in series vs SA & ENG in the coming months.

 

[Richard]

I'm waiting with great interest to see how the SAfricans handle Lee.

It should be fascinating.

 

[aussie]

OK then, how many other occasions has Steyn demonstrated wicket-taking skills other than the fast outswinger?.

Remembering bowling Sehwag a few times vs Ind with inswingers. But clearly Steyn has more than just a fast out-swinger sir..

He hasn't really needed to over the course of the last year, as that weapon - which, as I've noted about all my cricket-watching life, is about the best weapon a bowler can have - has worked constantly, and he's had some brittle batting-line-ups which have fallen over easily to bowl at to boot. And some seaming decks as well.

Steyn has no great height, does not have particularly good control of line, does not bowl a conventional inswinger, does not have any particularly appreciable reverse-swing skills, and is merely fast rather than lightening. About the only thing Steyn has developed over his career is to alter his length from the harmless short stuff he often used to bowl to realising that his best interests are served by, like Waqar Younis, pitching ball constantly full. That and he's much less of a serial no-baller now than he once was, though he still bowls the odd one more than I'd like to see.

Utter Crap.

No-one is saying Steyn is not an excllent bowler who has bowled superbly for most of the last 2 years. However, there is simply no way he is ever going to be the all-time great some seem to suspect. He just doesn't quite have enough natural attributes. He could learn some learnable skills (the inswinger for instance). But he cannot increase his height or his speed, and I don't think he's going to get much more accurate either.

You clearly have been watching another Dale Steyn. Plus i think your really foolish ridiculing of Steyn has a lot to do with an argument that i remember coming up before the the start of the ENG vs SA series that he could become the next Donald.

It seems that call has since given you blinkers towards Steyn's obvious ability.

 

[Richard]

Remembering bowling Sehwag a few times vs Ind with inswingers.

Really? Steyn dismissed Sehwag once in the series in 2006/07, caught behind (off an outswinger, unsurprisingly). He also had him dragged-on off one that seamed more than swung in as I recall in the green-top Test at Motera and had him lbw with something that swung in a little in the turning-pitch game.

So, perhaps one inswinger, which was lbw rather than bowled.

Utter Crap.

No, it's not. Every single thing I said there is 100% true.

You clearly have been watching another Dale Steyn. Plus i think your really foolish ridiculing of Steyn has a lot to do with an argument that i remember coming up before the the start of the ENG vs SA series that he could become the next Donald.

It seems that call has since given you blinkers towards Steyn's obvious ability.

No, I don't have blinkers towards any player.

It's really pretty foolish saying I'm "ridiculing" Steyn, as I'm doing nothing whatsoever of the sort. I'm saying Steyn is good rather than outstanding.

And no, he will never be as good as Donald. He does not have the raw materials, I've said that from the very first second I saw him and I'll continue to say it for his entire career. Eventually other people will presumably notice it too.

 

[aussie]

I'm waiting with great interest to see how the SAfricans handle Lee.

It should be fascinating.

Expecting Smith to be owned again, England really let him off the hook this summer.

Oh i'll get back too you on that Steyn debate, sensing another long debate & i don't have the energy for you right now son..