Can Steyn test the aussies ?

[Richard]

That is a load of bull****

Difficult to say something is a load of bull**** without even quoting it.

Steyn has great control he has to with the ammount of swing he gets if he couldn't control the ball than he would not be anywhere near as good. And Lee was always told to bowl slowly by captains in the middle of the game steyn is a much better bowler than Lee and I think their bowling averages show that. Lee has lost alot of pace and the ability to swing the ball so he willl mot trouble the south african's like he did last time.

Err, WTF is all this crap about? Lee was useless for a long time - yes, we know that. However, it's fairly well-established that he was only useless because people didn't tell him to bowl accurately. Although it shouldn't really take rocket-science to ignore people giving you blatantly stupid instructions, Lee apparently was incapable of doing it. It's been stated many times that Stephen Waugh told Lee he didn't care where he bowled, all he wanted was him to hurl it down as quickly as he could. Mind you, the fact that Ponting apparently told him something different fairly immediately and the change didn't happen for 3 or 4 years or so tends to suggest all isn't quite well there. It's also very strange that Lee was still bowling extremely fast at the time he was hitting good areas last year, and that Stephen Waugh didn't think to tell him to do both.

And no, Steyn doesn't have "great" control at all. Hence he concedes a lot of runs most of the time. This doesn't particularly matter, but it's the way things are.

 

[Richard]

Well if you watched south africas tour of india you would see that Morkel and steyn were constantly bowling 145-150 KM/H and at the moment in India Lee is bowling 140 KM/H.

Err... what?

 

[Richard]

What is this bollocks that Steyn has no control and has never had control?

Dunno, no-one's said Steyn has no control. That grapedo idiot might have thought someone did, but he appears to lack the ability to read as well as think so it's not terribly surprising.

Got better control than the so called metronome, Johann Louw...

So? Louw's pitiful, so far short of international class it's not funny.

Also, I can vividly remember Dale bowling with an injury against the West Indies in a test off about five pacers generating not much than 80mph yet still owning them and not going for a run. He did the same against the Indians as well…

Well done to him. Now let's see him do it more often.

 

[TT Boy]

Dunno, no-one's said Steyn has no control. That grapedo idiot might have thought someone did, but he appears to lack the ability to read as well as think so it's not terribly surprising.

So? Louw's pitiful, so far short of international class it's not funny.

Well done to him. Now let's see him do it more often.

He has. You should probably watch him bowl sometime...

 

[Richard]

I've watched just about every Test of Steyn's career. Mostly it's been the 90mph full outswinger with plenty wide and on the pads formula - and rightly so because that's probably his best formula for success. I'd prefer he get 15-67-6 than 20-54-3.

 

[Swervy]

Err, WTF is all this crap about? Lee was useless for a long time - yes, we know that. However, it's fairly well-established that he was only useless because people didn't tell him to bowl accurately. Although it shouldn't really take rocket-science to ignore people giving you blatantly stupid instructions, Lee apparently was incapable of doing it. It's been stated many times that Stephen Waugh told Lee he didn't care where he bowled, all he wanted was him to hurl it down as quickly as he could. Mind you, the fact that Ponting apparently told him something different fairly immediately and the change didn't happen for 3 or 4 years or so tends to suggest all isn't quite well there. It's also very strange that Lee was still bowling extremely fast at the time he was hitting good areas last year, and that Stephen Waugh didn't think to tell him to do both.

Am I missing something here? Do you not understand the concept of roles within a team? When you have McGrath and Warne doing the business, there might not have really been the need for Lee to just bowl line and length. There are games within games, things tend to be done for a reason. Do you really think that someone like Steve Waugh would simply not think to tell Lee to bowl straighter? For years do you think it just slipped his mind?
Steve Waugh would have been totally aware of the roles each player needed to play within his team.

Or do you really know something I don't?

 

[Johnners]

I've watched just about every Test of Steyn's career. Mostly it's been the 90mph full outswinger with plenty wide and on the pads formula - and rightly so because that's probably his best formula for success. I'd prefer he get 15-67-6 than 20-54-3.

I thought economy rates were the only thing that mattered? Or is that only when it suits your argument.

 

[Richard]

Eh? I think you might need to learn the difference between Tests and ODIs.

 

[Richard]

Am I missing something here? Do you not understand the concept of roles within a team? When you have McGrath and Warne doing the business, there might not have really been the need for Lee to just bowl line and length. There are games within games, things tend to be done for a reason. Do you really think that someone like Steve Waugh would simply not think to tell Lee to bowl straighter? For years do you think it just slipped his mind?
Steve Waugh would have been totally aware of the roles each player needed to play within his team.

Or do you really know something I don't?

So it's better for Lee to be bowling crap than to be bowling well?

No.

Bowling good lines and lengths > spraying it all over the place. No exceptions. To tell a bowler to not worry about bowling accurately when he has the capability to bowl accurately is simply nonsensical. It makes no sense. It cannot be justified by "well we can afford a passenger" because 11 men > 10 men.

 

[Johnners]

No, I've seen you argue it in regards to both forms of the game.

 

[Richard]

I have never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever said that economy-rate is all that matters in the limitless-over (ie, First-Class) game.

You don't take wickets in First-Class cricket, you don't get results. Economy-rate is, obviously, extremely important, but in the First-Class game a good economy-rate is no use in itself, unlike in limited-overs cricket.

 

[Swervy]

So it's better for Lee to be bowling crap than to be bowling well?

No.

Bowling good lines and lengths > spraying it all over the place. No exceptions. To tell a bowler to not worry about bowling accurately when he has the capability to bowl accurately is simply nonsensical. It makes no sense. It cannot be justified by "well we can afford a passenger" because 11 men > 10 men.

but there is more to the game than what you think. Very few batsmen in the world feel comfortable against a bowler bowling at 96mph, and in some ways, a bolwer who does spray it abit can be pretty hard to play at that speed. Maybe Waugh just wanted Lee to bowl fast as he could just to give the opposition a bit more to think about.

No player in the Aussie team over the last decade has played an appreciable number of tests and been considered a passenger. The team simply wouldnt have succeeded

 

[Richard]

Lee was a complete passenger between 2001 and 2003/04. McGrath, Gillespie and Warne (who played almost all the Tests in this time) were good enough that one useless bowler didn't really matter. Incidentally, when these were missing, Lee's poor showings did indeed cost the team much more.

I'm well aware that no batsman is going to feel very comfortable with someone bowling in the mid-90s mph. However, this alone won't get good batsmen out. And making batsmen feel uncomfortable doesn't win matches, getting them out does. Lee was not very good at getting batsmen out between 2001 and 2006/07 (though on occasions there were times when he was gifted a good haul and in 2005/06 he actually bowled pretty well most of the summer), so he was a poor bowler and his presence in the team meant it was weaker than it could have been with someone else playing.

 

[TT Boy]

Brett Lee test matches in Asia, 14 wickets @ 65 in 9 tests (2 tests against Bangladesh, 3 Pakistan, 4 India)…

Dale Steyn test matches in Asia, 46 wickets @ 21.58 in 9 tests (2 tests against Bangladesh, 2 Pakistan, 2 Sri Lanka, 3 India)…

 

[Jono]

Swervy do you only come to CW to argue with Richard?

 

[HMas]

This series shows Akhtar is better than Lee given his performance in India last year even though he was not fully fit.

 

[Jono]

Don't think anyone has ever argued that Lee is a better test bowler than Akhtar, surely?

But what Lee has that Akhtar doesn't is heart (and this is coming from a huge Shoaib fan!)

 

[grapedo]

Err... what?

You said the thin air in south africa make morkel and steyn quicker and like I said if Steyn couldn't control the ball he wouldn't be able to get wickets like that one against michael vaughan on youtube he can contorl it because he hasn't bowled that ball accidenlty 30 or 40 times just look at youtbube rich you stoner

 

[grapedo]

Difficult to say something is a load of bull**** without even quoting it.

Err, WTF is all this crap about? Lee was useless for a long time - yes, we know that. However, it's fairly well-established that he was only useless because people didn't tell him to bowl accurately. Although it shouldn't really take rocket-science to ignore people giving you blatantly stupid instructions, Lee apparently was incapable of doing it. It's been stated many times that Stephen Waugh told Lee he didn't care where he bowled, all he wanted was him to hurl it down as quickly as he could. Mind you, the fact that Ponting apparently told him something different fairly immediately and the change didn't happen for 3 or 4 years or so tends to suggest all isn't quite well there. It's also very strange that Lee was still bowling extremely fast at the time he was hitting good areas last year, and that Stephen Waugh didn't think to tell him to do both.

And no, Steyn doesn't have "great" control at all. Hence he concedes a lot of runs most of the time. This doesn't particularly matter, but it's the way things are.

Australia's bowling coaches were always trying to get lee to bowl line and length if he plays cricket for his cvountry and thinks that line and lenght dosen't matter than I don't think he would be playing **** you are a stoner

 

[Prince EWS]

That's the third time you've called him a stoner - I'm warning you as a moderator to stop referring to him as such.