Can anyone tell me when...

[Richard]

You clearly didn't follow last years tour to India. Tuffey averaged 28 in a series where the next best was Kumble at 37.

This in a series where India posted 500/5 dec, 209/6 dec, 424, & 136/4 dec. New Zealand posted 340, 272/6, & 630/6 dec.

In the second test only 20 wickets fell. Tuffey took 7 of those: 4/80 & 3/30.

As much as I enjoyed the flood of runs from Kiwi bats on that tour, I understood that it had a lot to do with flat and unresponsive pitches. I strongly suspect the effort in India is what injured Tuffey and is responsible for his subsequent lack of form.

For crying out loud I wish people would read what I say!
I said for most of his career! NOT for all of it.
It was actually only the Second Test where Tuffey got good figures on a non-seaming track, anyhow.
Yes, I'm aware of it, I followed it, and that's why I said most - because apart from that, it's true that Tuffey's figures on non-seaming wickets have been very poor.

 

[tooextracool]

All well stated and I support your point fully, except my money's on Ponting.

mines on darren lehmann

 

[Richard]

Well obviously because Lehmann is a genius and we can now see he's almost as good as Ponting in almost every aspect of batting.
And he's far more experienced of not only English conditions, but the worst of them.

 

[Waughney]

IMO Hayden is one of the most under rated players of today.. I reckon he is the second or third best batsman in international cricket.. True he is rated, but not nearly as highly...

I thought he was always rated among the top 3 players over the past 3 or so years, that's the general opinion here in Australia especially among commentators. I just assumed it was so around the world especially with him (AFAIK) being among the top 3 batsmen in the PWC and other ratings.

 

[Craig]

What is it going to take for people to give Hayden some credit? People said he had a weakness against spin bowling, so he gets Kevin Mitchell Jnr to prepare Indian like pitches at Alan Border field and gets Queensland's up and coming spinners to bowl at him. He also funds his own trip to train in India before the Indian tour of 2001. He then averages 100+ on that tour and is now probably one of the best players of spin in world cricket. Very early in his career he was prone to being caught w/k or slip from out swinging deliveries due to the fact he played away from his body (much like Elliot) but after getting dropped from the Australian team he worked very hard with John Buccanan on playing the line of the ball, and you will see now that he takes a very large step outside off stump and gets his head in line with the ball (which is what you are supposed to do). Very rarely does he now get caught at slip early in his innings, but even the best get low scores and sometimes don't move their feet. It is time for Richard and others to just accept the fact that Hayden is a very hard worker at his game and will go down as one of the greats, if not the greatest opener of all time.

I for one, will be putting money on Hayden to be top runscorer come Ashes 2005.

Great player? Potentially yes.

Greatest opener of all time? Bit of Queensland bias

 

[tooextracool]

Well obviously because Lehmann is a genius and we can now see he's almost as good as Ponting in almost every aspect of batting.
And he's far more experienced of not only English conditions, but the worst of them.

and also the most underrated player in the game today.....

 

[Swervy]

What is it going to take for people to give Hayden some credit?...... It is time for Richard and others to just accept the fact that Hayden is a very hard worker at his game and will go down as one of the greats, if not the greatest opener of all time.

I for one, will be putting money on Hayden to be top runscorer come Ashes 2005.

Quite right...I think it is because he doesnt fit into the classic mould of what an opener 'should' be, which traditionally was to ensure 60 runs in the first session of the game with no loss was scored...but Hayden has contributed to the idea that if 60 runs are scored in a session for no wicket, the bowling team can consider themselves on top.

Hayden's aggressivness takes the game away from the opposition very quickly, in that if he is in for a session,the opposition are probably going to struggle to get back in the game.

His massive average isnt lucky, it is thanks to a great amount of talent

 

[Mister Wright]

Great player? Potentially yes.

Greatest opener of all time? Bit of Queensland bias

Yes, he could retire the greatest opener of all time. He has the highest hundred/innings conversion rate 2nd to Bradman, he also has one of the highest averages of all openers. And he hasn't retired or played his last game yet, so he has a lot to accomplish yet.

 

[Linda]

Not to mention the fact that he's one half of the 6 times 200-run opening partnership with Langer...

 

[Adamc]

Yes, he could retire the greatest opener of all time. He has the highest hundred/innings conversion rate 2nd to Bradman, he also has one of the highest averages of all openers. And he hasn't retired or played his last game yet, so he has a lot to accomplish yet.

3rd to Bradman and Headley you mean.

 

[marc71178]

Great player? Potentially yes.

Greatest opener of all time? Bit of Queensland bias

Why not?

If he continues in the vein he's in at the moment, an average well over 60 isn't out of the question.

 

[Mister Wright]

3rd to Bradman and Headley you mean.

Yep, my bad.

 

[Dick Rockett]

For crying out loud I wish people would read what I say!
I said for most of his career! NOT for all of it.

You need to relax, my friend. I did read what you said. I don't know, however, how you can be so dismissive of a bowler's ability on "non-seamers" after such a short career. Since the tour of India he's played six tests, more than a quarter of his career to date, and as I said, he's been carrying an injury.

It was actually only the Second Test where Tuffey got good figures on a non-seaming track, anyhow.

So? Where did those seven wickets come from? Did he pull them out of his backside? Anil Kumble could only cobble together a series average in the late 30s, does this make him hopeless in conditions that don't suit him?

Yes, I'm aware of it, I followed it, and that's why I said most - because apart from that, it's true that Tuffey's figures on non-seaming wickets have been very poor.

And where are your stats to back this up? Perhaps in the same mythical cubbyhole as your first chance averages? Every bowler, no matter who they are, is going to have a higher average on runway-like pitches.

 

[tooextracool]

Why not?

If he continues in the vein he's in at the moment, an average well over 60 isn't out of the question.

because there have been several openers that have been rather unfortunate not to have played against such poor bowling on flat wickets and have still averaged only a touch below hayden. sir jack hobbs comes to mind.
besides, just like richard im not totally convinced of haydens abilities either.....

 

[yaju]

What is the answer of the question that Rik asked?

 

[marc71178]

It never happened, he's just bitter because a player he had consistently written off as rubbish is actually very good.

 

[yaju]

Harminson is yet to perform well against Australia in Australia.

 

[Langeveldt]

Harminson is yet to perform well against Australia in Australia.

Ditto most cricketers....

 

[yaju]

Ditto most cricketers....

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaye!

Smart lad.

 

[Langeveldt]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaye!

Smart lad.

You sound like your from t'Yorkshirre....