Building a 'Peak XI'

[The Sean]

Howstat actually has a function where it lists the highest aggregates (and accompanying averages) for a given number of innings up to 100. But it only does it by innings, not Tests.

 

[Teja.]

Howstat actually has a function where it lists the highest aggregates (and accompanying averages) for a given number of innings up to 100. But it only does it by innings, not Tests.

Does it let you search the best 50/100 innings over a much longer career though?

 

[The Sean]

Does it let you search the best 50/100 innings over a much longer career though?

Yeah sorry, that's what I meant - the best streak of innings up to a total of 100.

HowSTAT! Test Cricket - Most Runs Scored in Consecutive Innings

Test Cricket - Most Runs Scored in Consecutive Innings

howstat.com

 

[Coronis]

Without considering
WG
Barry Richards
And
Victor Trumper

Trumper is definitely not at that top tier, he was a contemporary of Hobbs and Hobbs dominated him, averaging 57 pre war to Trumper’s 44 from Hobbs’ debut. I’m only considering tests here so most of WG’s achievements aren’t as important in that context and Richards, although he would’ve likely been a top 5 opener of all time in tests never got his full career at the top level unfortunately.

Yeah sorry, that's what I meant - the best streak of innings up to a total of 100.

HowSTAT! Test Cricket - Most Runs Scored in Consecutive Innings

Test Cricket - Most Runs Scored in Consecutive Innings

howstat.com

My favourite thing with this is being able to compare who had the best 80 inning streak (Bradman’s career).

HowSTAT! Test Cricket - Most Runs Scored in Consecutive Innings

Test Cricket - Most Runs Scored in Consecutive Innings

howstat.com

 

[smash84]

Yeah, tbf, I don't want to come across like I'm bashing Imran - he's one of my favourite cricketers of all time. He's still easily the cricketer of the 70s/80s and the third best cricketer of all time for me. However, there's a reason why that oft quoted stat about him averaging 19 with the ball and 50 with the bat over 10 years as an all rounder sounds a bit too good to be true. It's still mind-blowing but there are a few T & C associated with those numbers.

Absolutely. He got injured at his peak and lost a couple of years. His peak might even have been better than what it was if he hadn't been injured, unfortunately it's one of those things we'll never know.

 

[subshakerz]

Without considering
WG
Barry Richards
And
Victor Trumper

Interesting. I put Gooch and Hayden ahead in my peak XI, but perhaps I forgot to consider earlier options.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Trumper is definitely not at that top tier, he was a contemporary of Hobbs and Hobbs dominated him, averaging 57 pre war to Trumper’s 44 from Hobbs’ debut. I’m only considering tests here so most of WG’s achievements aren’t as important in that context and Richards, although he would’ve likely been a top 5 opener of all time in tests never got his full career at the top level unfortunately.

p[/URL]

Hobbs and Trumper were not exact contemporaries.. They were like Desilva and Dravid.

 

[Coronis]

Hobbs and Trumper were not exact contemporaries.. They were like Desilva and Dravid.

Not exact contemporaries but when they did play together Hobbs was far better.

 

[bagapath]

Without considering
WG
Barry Richards
And
Victor Trumper

Barry Richards could be considered when we do a 4 test peak streak. Doesn't belong in this conversation. Or any conversation about test cricket in general.

 

[shortpitched713]

I swear I didn't steal the idea of a 33 Test match peak when finding the one for Waqar in my other thread.

 

[Migara]

Warne is another example. Weak phase in middle and 2 peaks on either side.

Weak when he toured or played India.

 

[Migara]

It is interesting to compare the bowling workload of the 4 great allrounders of 70s-80s.
Below are the balls bowled per year through the tenure of their test career. Imran not playing much test cricket in the initial part of his career may have played a part, but his divergence from others is interesting.

Imran Khan - 945
Richard Hadlee - 1258
Ian Botham - 1462
Kapil Dev - 1799

More or less shows the pace they bowled at. Imran was out and out express. Hadlee lively fast medium and express when mood sets in. Kapil and Botham are classical fast medium swing bowlers. Faster bowlers tend to bowl lesser number of balls.

 

[Migara]

Those numbers were for the entire length of their test career, without taking into account their injury/ other breaks.

Also some other interesting numbers.

Kapil bowled 3553 deliveries in 1979 when he was barely 20. And 3469 in 1983. Understandably, He never was the same bowler since that year.
Also bowled more than 2000 deliveries in 3 other calendar years. He really would have benefitted with the kind of workload management the likes of Bumrah get these days.

Botham too was bowled to the ground in 1981 and 1982 when he bowled 3338 and 3270 deliveries respectively. He wasn't the same bowler since then either.

Neither of these two had their workload properly managed by the team management those days. Certainly would have made a lot of difference to their overall numbers.

Now Chaminda Vaas who was much similar to pace as Kapil bowled 1563 deliveries per year in tests alone and further 1127 in ODIs. For Kapil this is 1799 and 700 respectively. I don't think it is excessive work given that they were fast medium swing bowlers.

Bumrah is much quicker than Kapil, and some times burst in to spells of rapid pace. Don't think comparison is just.

 

[Coronis]

Revisiting this - based off of DoG’s 5 years + 40 innings peak idea I’d probably go with

Boycott 1971-1978 (68.92)
Hobbs 1910-1925 (68.32)
Bradman 1934-1948 (114.30)
Smith 2014-2019 (77.15)
Richards 1976-1981 (75.72)
Sobers 1958-1963 (78.56)
Flower+ 1996-2001 (65.10)
Imran 1981-1987 (14.76)
Murali 2001-2007 (17.54)
Waqar 1990-1995 (17.84)
Barnes 1908-1914 (15.73)

Players who were close to being selected: Hammond, Sanga, Ponting, Walcott, Weekes, Kallis, Hutton, Sutcliffe, de Villiers, Gilchrist, Lock, Laker, Hadlee, Marshall, Botham.

Ponting was extremely close - I wanted to give him credit for his peak being over 100 innings, but Smith and Sobers were locks, and if I’m not picking Richards in a peak XI, well.. it would really be personal bias at that point.

Hutton and Sutcliffe actually had better pure averages at least over their peaks, but I went with Hobbs because of the sheer length of time and Boycott cos he needs more plaudits, plus it was looking too similar to my own XI.

Keeper I went a bit unconvential I guess - de Villiers during his peak though only kept for half his matches - I wanted a full time keeper. Flower’s situation vs Gilchrist, I think Flower had it harder and its not like he was Jonny Bairstow. Plus he averages 65 to Gilchrist’s 55.

Imran and Barnes were no brainers, I went with Murali over the other spin options because he took twice as many wickets as them. Waqar extremely close with Hadlee and Marshall but he is known for his peak - the XI wouldn’t feel complete without him (similar to Richards), plus the other two are already in my XI, gotta have that variation.

Botham definitely popped up in my head as a first thought when I think of peaks, but there wasn’t place for him as a pure bowler and I wasn’t going to specifically put him as an AR with Sobers and Imran already there.

 

[subshakerz]

Revisiting this - based off of DoG’s 5 years + 40 innings peak idea I’d probably go with

Boycott 1971-1978 (68.92)
Hobbs 1910-1925 (68.32)
Bradman 1934-1948 (114.30)
Smith 2014-2019 (77.15)
Richards 1976-1981 (75.72)
Sobers 1958-1963 (78.56)
Flower+ 1996-2001 (65.10)
Imran 1981-1987 (14.76)
Murali 2001-2007 (17.54)
Waqar 1990-1995 (17.84)
Barnes 1908-1914 (15.73)

Players who were close to being selected: Hammond, Sanga, Ponting, Walcott, Weekes, Kallis, Hutton, Sutcliffe, de Villiers, Gilchrist, Lock, Laker, Hadlee, Marshall, Botham.

Ponting was extremely close - I wanted to give him credit for his peak being over 100 innings, but Smith and Sobers were locks, and if I’m not picking Richards in a peak XI, well.. it would really be personal bias at that point.

Hutton and Sutcliffe actually had better pure averages at least over their peaks, but I went with Hobbs because of the sheer length of time and Boycott cos he needs more plaudits, plus it was looking too similar to my own XI.

Keeper I went a bit unconvential I guess - de Villiers during his peak though only kept for half his matches - I wanted a full time keeper. Flower’s situation vs Gilchrist, I think Flower had it harder and its not like he was Jonny Bairstow. Plus he averages 65 to Gilchrist’s 55.

Imran and Barnes were no brainers, I went with Murali over the other spin options because he took twice as many wickets as them. Waqar extremely close with Hadlee and Marshall but he is known for his peak - the XI wouldn’t feel complete without him (similar to Richards), plus the other two are already in my XI, gotta have that variation.

Botham definitely popped up in my head as a first thought when I think of peaks, but there wasn’t place for him as a pure bowler and I wasn’t going to specifically put him as an AR with Sobers and Imran already there.

Excellent list. I just wish Botham could have found a place.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Okay, my peak XI, considering a peak of around 25 Tests would be:

Jack Hobbs
Len Hutton
Don Bradman
Steve Smith
Andy Flower (wk)
Garry Sobers
Ian Botham
Imran Khan
Richard Hadlee
Sydney Barnes
Mutthiah Muralitharan

Bench:

Virendra Sehwag
Viv Richards
Adam Gilchrist
Waqar Younis

 

[Bolo.]

Revisiting this - based off of DoG’s 5 years + 40 innings peak idea I’d probably go with

Boycott 1971-1978 (68.92)
Hobbs 1910-1925 (68.32)
Bradman 1934-1948 (114.30)
Smith 2014-2019 (77.15)
Richards 1976-1981 (75.72)
Sobers 1958-1963 (78.56)
Flower+ 1996-2001 (65.10)
Imran 1981-1987 (14.76)
Murali 2001-2007 (17.54)
Waqar 1990-1995 (17.84)
Barnes 1908-1914 (15.73)

Players who were close to being selected: Hammond, Sanga, Ponting, Walcott, Weekes, Kallis, Hutton, Sutcliffe, de Villiers, Gilchrist, Lock, Laker, Hadlee, Marshall, Botham.

Ponting was extremely close - I wanted to give him credit for his peak being over 100 innings, but Smith and Sobers were locks, and if I’m not picking Richards in a peak XI, well.. it would really be personal bias at that point.

Hutton and Sutcliffe actually had better pure averages at least over their peaks, but I went with Hobbs because of the sheer length of time and Boycott cos he needs more plaudits, plus it was looking too similar to my own XI.

Keeper I went a bit unconvential I guess - de Villiers during his peak though only kept for half his matches - I wanted a full time keeper. Flower’s situation vs Gilchrist, I think Flower had it harder and its not like he was Jonny Bairstow. Plus he averages 65 to Gilchrist’s 55.

Imran and Barnes were no brainers, I went with Murali over the other spin options because he took twice as many wickets as them. Waqar extremely close with Hadlee and Marshall but he is known for his peak - the XI wouldn’t feel complete without him (similar to Richards), plus the other two are already in my XI, gotta have that variation.

Botham definitely popped up in my head as a first thought when I think of peaks, but there wasn’t place for him as a pure bowler and I wasn’t going to specifically put him as an AR with Sobers and Imran already there.

I think Flower is a mistake. In a batting lineup this strong, drop a few runs and get the extra keeping. I'll take Gilly's 55 even if he had it easier as a bat. His style as a bat fits In better anyway. Flower was mostly a damage recovery number 5.

 

[subshakerz]

I think Hayden would feature in my peak XI. He was insane between 2001 to 2004.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Okay, my peak XI, considering a peak of around 25 Tests would be:

Jack Hobbs
Len Hutton
Don Bradman
Steve Smith
Andy Flower (wk)
Garry Sobers
Ian Botham
Imran Khan
Richard Hadlee
Sydney Barnes
Mutthiah Muralitharan

Bench:

Virendra Sehwag
Viv Richards
Adam Gilchrist
Waqar Younis

Viv’s peak is easily better than Smith’s because of his more attacking way of playing, and because of the insanely flat surfaces at home Smith. 74.7 for a stretch from 1976-81(insane SR, and the major performer key victories in Aus, Eng, Pak against some great bowlers). Insane peak considering the era and record maintained across conditions. 3400 runs in 32 matches, 12 hundreds

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Can’t make a peak XI without Viv. Rest of the list I agree with