Bowling All Rounders or Batting All Rounders +

[sithb]

Jadeja is greatest spin bowling all rounder. average of 24 with ball and avearage of 37 with bat doesnt that make him atg

Sobers says hi.

 

[sithb]

On question.

Ignoring the freaks in Kallis , Sobers and Imran.

I'd have a bowling allrounder over a batting allrounder everytime.

 

[shortpitched713]

Strong argument indeed.

There's an argument for both.

Actually agreed. One is more rare, the other bringing more value at the upper end Test skill level. And ultimately it's team context dependent which is the more "important" of the 2 for a given team.

I just find the arguments about them just tired and over-worn at this point.

 

[Coronis]

Sobers says hi.

iirc in a thread (can’t find it right now) it was discussed that Sobers mostly bowled his pace and was far more effective with that than his spin.

So if you were looking at him as an allrounder only including his spin bowling this opinion might change.

 

[Johan]

Greig was hardly a batting all-rounder, definitely not in the mould of Hammond, Simpson or Worrell. Averaged 28 with the bat in non-Test FCs. If anything, he was a pure all-rounder, even slightly a bowling one in FC overall.

Greig's the OG away track Bully, with both the bat and the ball

 

[Coronis]

Greig's the OG away track Bully, with both the bat and the ball

Its actually Hammond

Home
44 matches 3006 @ 50.06, 30 @ 46.06
Away
41 matches 4245 @ 66.32, 53 @ 32.90

He was perhaps a better fielder at home though, 64 catches to 46.

 

[Johan]

Its actually Hammond

Home
44 matches 3006 @ 50.06, 30 @ 46.06
Away
41 matches 4245 @ 66.32, 53 @ 32.90

Hammond's good at home though, 50 batting average is pretty good, meanwhile Greig

Home
31 matches 1682 @ 34.64, 58 @ 37.92
Away
27 Matches 1971 @ 46.93, 82 @ 28.10

 

[Coronis]

Hammond's good at home though, 50 batting average is pretty good, meanwhile Greig

Home
31 matches 1682 @ 34.64, 58 @ 37.92
Away
27 Matches 1971 @ 46.93, 82 @ 28.10

Being good at home or away doesn’t preclude one from being an away or home track bully imo.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Greig's the OG away track Bully, with both the bat and the ball

His natural home track is Saffa though

 

[kyear2]

Imo Kallis was a better bat than Pollock a bowler, so Kallis overall ahead.

Something you said yesterday brought me back to this.

How about Hammond vs Lindwall?

Was thinking Davidson, but think you rate Lindwall higher.

Adequate comp?

Or....

Wasim vs Kallis.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Something you said yesterday brought me back to this.

How about Hammond vs Lindwall?

Was thinking Davidson, but think you rate Lindwall higher.

Adequate comp?

Or....

Wasim vs Kallis.

Hammond slightly. Slightly better batsman than Lindwall bowler, slightly better bowler than Lindwall batsman, ATG fielder. Neither of them is an an all-rounder though, Davidson is.

 

[kyear2]

Hammond is a batsman that could bowl a bit while Lindwall was a bowler that could bat a bit imo.

To me neither are allrounders which is why you always need to have some allrounder criteria. These are what I consider:

Batting allrounder: batting average > 35 bowling average < 35, minimum 1.5 wkts per match

Bowling allrounder: batting average > 25, bowling average < 25

Pure allrounder: batting average > 30, bowling average < 30, minimum 2.5 wkts per match

Not that it was about if either were "all rounders" per say, but...

For me the batting all rounders should be > 40, not 35.

By these standards though, off the top of my head batting all-rounders are Sobers and Kallis (Greig barely misses out), bowling all rounders Imran, Hadlee and Pollock, plus the two India spinners.

This is more about which comparative package is more useful, neither are full all rounders but did the job required in all the highlighted categories.

 

[kyear2]

Hammond slightly. Slightly better batsman than Lindwall bowler, slightly better bowler than Lindwall batsman, ATG fielder. Neither of them is an an all-rounder though, Davidson is.

So basically Hammond?

 

[Coronis]

Hammond slightly. Slightly better batsman than Lindwall bowler, slightly better bowler than Lindwall batsman, ATG fielder. Neither of them is an an all-rounder though, Davidson is.

How is that?

Davidson may have been an AR in FC cricket but he definitely wasn’t in tests. You could arguably say the same for Hammond.

 

[capt_Luffy]

How is that?

Davidson may have been an AR in FC cricket but he definitely wasn’t in tests. You could arguably say the same for Hammond.

Averages almost 25. That's the nominal bowling all-rounder territory for me

 

[Coronis]

Averages almost 25. That's the nominal bowling all-rounder territory for me

And yet Lindwall has 2 tons and 5 50’s but is not because he averages a few runs lower?

Davidson (one of my favourites) was a bowler who could bat. He wasn’t an allrounder anymore than Philander was.

 

[capt_Luffy]

And yet Lindwall has 2 tons and 5 50’s but is not because he averages a few runs lower?

Davidson (one of my favourites) was a bowler who could bat. He wasn’t an allrounder anymore than Philander was.

Imo, you have to make the cut somewhere, and Davidson is a better batsman to me. And Philander is also a borderline all-rounder for me, he batted 7 and was virtually selected as an all-rounder in a good few instances.

 

[sayon basak]

Its actually Hammond

Home
44 matches 3006 @ 50.06, 30 @ 46.06
Away
41 matches 4245 @ 66.32, 53 @ 32.90

He was perhaps a better fielder at home though, 64 catches to 46.

Take the batting and flip that.

You get Sobers.

 

[Coronis]

Imo, you have to make the cut somewhere, and Davidson is a better batsman to me. And Philander is also a borderline all-rounder for me, he batted 7 and was virtually selected as an all-rounder in a good few instances.

Well I guess one of my qualifiers is you can’t be an allrounder if you haven’t at least scored a century and also taken a 5’fer in tests. Arbitrary? Sure. But I think that’s a good starting point, better than an arbitrary average imo.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Well I guess one of my qualifiers is you can’t be an allrounder if you haven’t at least scored a century and also taken a 5’fer in tests. Arbitrary? Sure. But I think that’s a good starting point, better than an arbitrary average imo.

I guess works. I just call Benaud an all-rounder and Davidson not, though Benaud was the better bat slightly in Tests.