LangleyburyCCPlayer
State Regular
On a serious note, I think a lot of coaches and selectors if they were in charge of England would use Root as a frontline spinner if Stokes is not around, but the current England setup are very keen on Bashir
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Bowling All Rounders or Batting All Rounders +
- Thread starter kyear2
- Start date
On a serious note, I think a lot of coaches and selectors if they were in charge of England would use Root as a frontline spinner if Stokes is not around, but the current England setup are very keen on Bashir
Coronis
International Coach
What
On a serious note, I think a lot of coaches and selectors if they were in charge of England would use Root as a frontline spinner if Stokes is not around, but the current England setup are very keen on Bashir
kyear2
International Coach
I have Kallis 14th and Wasim 11th, so yeah, way closer than you do. So Kallis fairly easily for me.
I still have Steyn higher. Steyn is a top 4 bowler, that's hard to beat. But yeah, closer than Wasim and Kallis.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
I guess I tend not to rate secondary skills as high as you do unless they reach a threshold of being specialist level like Imran or Sobers that can potentially allow you an extra space in a regular team.
The difference between Steyn and Wasim is higher in ranking but in real game play is minor. It's just that these minor differences in primary ability matter so much more. Hence why Wasim being ahead of Kallis in primary plus his batting overtakes him.
kyear2
International Coach
You have always underestimated Kallis's batting and hold him overall in low regard.
I have them very close in primary skill, very. Almost equal in fact.
Kallis is the considerably better bowler and again, one of the ATGs at slip.
Kallis is just one of the guys you don't like.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
You're right I am not going to put a universally praised bowler like Wasim the same level with Kallis.
kyear2
International Coach
Hey, I'm all for peer review.
But for the sake of argument where does Wasim's record excellent over Kallis's?
Even looking at peer review, for a healthy part of Wasim's career, Sir Curly was ahead of him, and at the end McGrath.
And regarding bowler ratings and Wasim being top 10, I have
Marshall, McGrath, Hadlee, Steyn, Ambrose, Warne, Murali, Lillee over him and it's close between him and Donald and more often than not I have Donald ahead.
With Kallis, I have over him.
Bradman, Tendulkar, Sobers, Richards, Hobbs, Lara, Smith, Hutton, Richards*, Gavaskar, Chappell, Hammond, Ponting, that's it, then it's him and Border.
Then we had an entire conversation where Wasim wasn't even considered all rounder level, while Kallis is seen as one of the top 3 all rounders ever. There no universe where Wasim is a better batsman than Kallis was a bowler.
Then we have a top 10 ever slip fielder who was indispensable to his team and instrumental to his pacers at home and away.
Yeah.
LangleyburyCCPlayer
State Regular
Our spinner stocks are low, but we’re putting a lot of faith in Bashir
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
If you are all for peer review, how can you have Kallis so high in batting? He was never rated that high.
Coronis
International Coach
You’d have to be completely moronic to use Root as your only spinner.
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
It's exactly the kind of thing I would expect from Bazball tbh
ankitj
Hall of Fame Member
Don't care about slip. Opportunity cost is small for a replacement. And it's not like others in the field are just twiddling thumbs.
So on skills that truly stand out, I think there is a strong case to be made for batting all-rounders who strengthen the team balance better than bowling all-rounders.
So on skills that truly stand out, I think there is a strong case to be made for batting all-rounders who strengthen the team balance better than bowling all-rounders.
LangleyburyCCPlayer
State Regular
Dan Lawrence says hi!
ataraxia
International Coach
They're about to tour NZ.
kyear2
International Coach
Ignoring the first bit...
Exactly. Even if you have a Hadlee, that doesn't helping your quest for a 5th bowling option. You still need the batting all rounder. Hence greater inherent value.
And re your first point the difference between a Kallis and a Root or Smith is more than obvious and adds further value.
smash84
The Tiger King
Why are you ignoring that part? Weren't you arguing that slip fielding was as crucial as batting and bowling?
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
@kyear2 would prefer a high class slip to a high class pace attack.
LangleyburyCCPlayer
State Regular
With 3 spinners!
kyear2
International Coach
That's idiotic, but guess it fits.
No I have never said that, and you're well aware. But you have to troll I guess.