Best current international captain

[C_C]

I am judging Pontings captaincy on his ability to lead the team on the field which also includes what he does

Are you playing too much D&D ?
Captaincy isnt a magic hat with wisdom in it that will change the way YOU play or see things with 'infused wisdom'....... what he does in the field is irrelevant to whether he is the captain or not.
I dont think my batting will magically improve because i am the captain......since to my knowledge, that job doesnt automatically add superior reflexes, training and mental astuteness to my being.

 

[C_C]

Yeah, that's my point. Did you see the Sri Lankan series? He did a masterful job, which is why I rate him the next best captain in the world after Fleming/Ganguly

Well i caught the highlights of it.
Out here in Canada, its pretty expensive for a student to wacth live cricket, not to mention pretty inconvinient.
I still think its too early to judge ponting.....he's barely completed a season as a captain. But you are right-he did a good job against sri lanka.

 

[King_Ponting]

Whether you like it or not, i've shown numerous examples where a similar offence by an aussie has gone unpunished while an asian has been fined/banned.
You assume that justice is fair whereas i dont-since in reality, justice is yet to be fair in the history of mankind.

Alright mate name some. dont give me this crap that the icc picks on the asians thats just what u'd like to think.

 

[C_C]

The australian team is very settled and playing fantastic cricket which is a testament to Pontings ability to keep the oarsmen all rowing in the same direction.You can also pick up when someone doesnt know much about captaincy when they think a monkey can captain Australia.

Instead of Dumbya-style rhetoric, why dont you try to prove your last statement with some logic.
You really think that it makes much difference to a team of demi-Gods who the captain is ?
And you really think that a clairvoyant master in psychology and logic would make a team inclusive of you and our grannies win ?
Australia's main components have remained constant- McGrath, Gillespie,Hayden,Langer,Matyn,Gilly and Warne, not to mention,Punter himself.

Thats 8 'demi-gods' outta 11.

It doesnt take a master navigator to captain the ship when 8 outta 11 of your oarsmen come with an inbuilt compass, GPS locator and turbocharged motors for oars.

 

[C_C]

Alright mate name some. dont give me this crap that the icc picks on the asians thats just what u'd like to think.

Gimme a few days to dig up the old threads and look up the references....i aint looking to start a 2 hour debate at 1am in the morning.

 

[Scallywag]

True test of Ponting so far was Mumbai 2004......and he didnt do too well....though like i said, he is still learning and is new to the job.
The true test in my opinion would be a match going down to the wire and seeing what sort of bowling changes/field settings Ponting puts up.

Interesting you should select a dead rubber as the test for Ponting.

Dont you think that series was the true test for Ganguly. Australia trying to win their first series in India for 30 odd years and the captain out injured. Ganguly failed and Australia won.

And lets not forget about the ODI series where Australia were missing all their first choice bowlers and India didnt even manage to win one game against the Aussies.

Gangulys performance as captain in both series could only be described as pathetic.

 

[AndrewM]

Instead of Dumbya-style rhetoric, why dont you try to prove your last statement with some logic.
You really think that it makes much difference to a team of demi-Gods who the captain is ?
And you really think that a clairvoyant master in psychology and logic would make a team inclusive of you and our grannies win ?
Australia's main components have remained constant- McGrath, Gillespie,Hayden,Langer,Matyn,Gilly and Warne, not to mention,Punter himself.

Thats 8 'demi-gods' outta 11.

It doesnt take a master navigator to captain the ship when 8 outta 11 of your oarsmen come with an inbuilt compass, GPS locator and turbocharged motors for oars.

Thank you mate. That is the point that i and others have been stressing, yet Scallywag is failing to justify with irrelevant nonsense regarding "leadership on the field". Motivating "old war horses" like McGrath and Warne - there has been no change in motivation, they have been the nucleus of the bowling attack and have remained constant.

The fact that Gilchrist saw them to a series win, when he has publically admited not relishing the captaincy, highlights this point. That a team full of "demi-gods" is not hard to captain. Ponting surely must chuckle when he hands the ball to Warne after McGrath is tired.

 

[C_C]

Australia trying to win their first series in India for 30 odd years and the captain out injured. Ganguly failed and Australia won.

Umm.
India were missing Tendy for half the time and he was injured for the other half.
They missed one of their first choice pacers(pathan) for half the series, one of their strike spinners for a match and ganguly himself was out for half the series.
Add to the fact that Australia is a better team anyways by a fair margin.

Like i said, its idiotic to use the scorecard to justify the successes or the failues of a captain.
Captaincy skill is something that is an intangiable- you cannot quantify it with statistics.
Simply coz, like i said, a brilliant captain cannot win with a pathetic team and a pathetic captain wont lose with an alltime great team.
In the matches Ganguly played, he handled his bowlers excellently,set the field pretty astutely and managed the media excellently.
So i dont see how he 'failed' as a captain.

 

[Dasa]

India didnt even manage to win one game against the Aussies.

Hmm... don't remember that...

 

[C_C]

Yeah. no ****.

I guess if i had a bowling lineup like McGrath-Gillespie-Kaspa-Warne or Roberts-Garner-Holding-Croft, i would really have to scratch my head as to which bowler i should 'protect', which bowler is too tired to continue and which bowler is gonna get me that breakthrough.


As Botham said in his book, Viv once sledged him when England managed to take the game to the 5th day- Viv used to book the WI team for golf course fun on the 5th day because he was like 'nomatter what you do, we'll win in 4 days'.

 

[Scallywag]

Thank you mate. That is the point that i and others have been stressing, yet Scallywag is failing to justify with irrelevant nonsense regarding "leadership on the field". Motivating "old war horses" like McGrath and Warne - there has been no change in motivation, they have been the nucleus of the bowling attack and have remained constant.

The fact that Gilchrist saw them to a series win, when he has publically admited not relishing the captaincy, highlights this point. That a team full of "demi-gods" is not hard to captain. Ponting surely must chuckle when he hands the ball to Warne after McGrath is tired.

AndrewM I'm sorry but its you with the irrelevant nonsense regarding leadership.

You simply believe that because Australia are winning you cant be a good captain.

Tendulkar, Dravid, Harby, Kumble, Sehwag, Laxman all "demi gods" and yet Ganguly cannot stop Australia from winning a series in India.

And tell us about the ODI series when half the Aus team was out. Of course you wont say anything about that because Australia were outgunned but still beat India in India.

 

[C_C]

You simply believe that because Australia are winning you cant be a good captain.

Thats not what he is saying.
What he is saying is precisely the opposite- that simply because a star-studded team like Australia wins, it doesnt mean you are a good captain.

And with that Tendulkar-Dravid-Sehwag-etc. comment, are you implying that India is as good a team as Australia man-2-man ?

Until you address my comment about 'monkey with superstars' and 'clairvoyant genius with our grannies', you have no case.

 

[Scallywag]

Hmm... don't remember that...

you are right Dasa India won the first game.

But Australia smashed India in every game after that without McGrath, Warne, Lee, Gilespie and Kaspa. The bowlers were Bichel, Williams and Bracken.

Oh and guess who was captain.

 

[C_C]

PS- how exactly were Australia 'outgunned' ?

Australia played Bevan,Gillchrist,Hayden,Ponting,Martyn and Symonds for all their matches, with gillchrist missing one.

Harvey played 3 outts 4 matches vs India as well and Harvey is first choice anyways.

Even with McGrath-Gillespie and lee out, Australia man-for-man matched IND in that ODI series.

 

[Scallywag]

In the matches Ganguly played, he handled his bowlers excellently,set the field pretty astutely and managed the media excellently.
So i dont see how he 'failed' as a captain.

Care to explain why India lost the ODI series.

 

[C_C]

McGrath, Warne, Lee, Gilespie and Kaspa

Are you sure you are an Aussie and a cricket fan to boot ?
Because if you are, you should be aware that Warne retired from ODI cricket a while back.
And Kaspa is by no means a 'regular' in the aussie ODI lineup in the period mentioned.
Kaspa recently made his comeback as well.

 

[C_C]

Care to explain why India lost the ODI series.

Because Australia has better players than India and Australian ODI batting unit is stronger.
IND's ODI bowling is nothing fancy schmancy. You should know that.

Oh and besides, my comments were about IND-AUS TEST series, since you said 'OZ winning for the first time in 30 years'.
It hasnt been 30years since OZ won an ODI series in IND.
Careful now. Dont mix your cricketing formats

 

[AndrewM]

Thats not what he is saying.
What he is saying is precisely the opposite- that simply because a star-studded team like Australia wins, it doesnt mean you are a good captain.

Exactly my point. You simply think that since Australia are still winning with their current group of players, Ponting is somehow beyond Fleming. Nothing has changed. They still win. They won the previous World Cup if you didn't realize.

Until you address my comment about 'monkey with superstars' and 'clairvoyant genius with our grannies', you have no case.

Indeed Scallywag is failing to see the failings in his argument.

 

[Scallywag]

Are you sure you are an Aussie and a cricket fan to boot ?
Because if you are, you should be aware that Warne retired from ODI cricket a while back.
And Kaspa is by no means a 'regular' in the aussie ODI lineup in the period mentioned.
Kaspa recently made his comeback as well.

You made the comment that with Warne and McGrath in the team winning was easy, But I pointed out even with second string bowlers Ponting still managed to beat India in their own backyard.

 

[Scallywag]

Indeed Scallywag is failing to see the failings in his argument.

AndrewM, Your rudeness is matched by your lack of knowlege about captains. If you want to say something to me then address me and make your point.