Best current international captain

[chaminda_00]

Sorry as well as having the mental brilliance and stategical thinking required to outsmart the opposition

Then wouldn't that put Vaughan and Fleming infront of Ponting

 

[King_Ponting]

no because if you combine all three aspects ponting comes out on top. Brilliant batsman, brilliant fielder, very good thinker.

 

[chaminda_00]

Anyway could captain the Australia team, it a no brainer, as shown by how easy it was for Gilchrist to lead the Australian team in Ponting absence.

 

[C_C]

It is idiotic to evaluate captaincy by looking at the win-loss ratio.
Fleming is the best captain I've seen since Ranatunga and Taylor....but his side has been ravaged by injuries and have played numerously against topnotch opposition.

By simply looking at win-loss ratio, Viv was a better cappo than Lloyd, Jayasurya was a better kuptain than Ranatunga, Punter is a better skipper than Taylor and Akram was a better cappo than Imran Khan.........which is about as accurate as George Dumbya Bush's WMD claims in 'EYE-rack'.

To win a match, captaincy is secondary to the sheer skillset possessed by the players.
As someone said, a monkey could make this OZ team win and a monkey could make the WI team of the 80s win.
All a captain can do on field is make the right bowling changes, set the field astutely and impliment the plan to the best of his ability. Off field, he has to have the ability to manage egos, inspire youngsters and keep the old veterans motivated. Ie, pretty much be the 'sarge' for everyone to follow.
Beyond that, he cant do anything.
You can be a clairvoyant einstien but if you are stuck with a team composed of my granny, T_C's granny,S_L's granny, Richard's ,Scallywag,TEC's granny, etc., you aint got a snowball's chance in hell to win against the Aussies.

Converesely, make a team inclusive of Sehwag, Langer, Dravid,Punter,Lara,Tendulkar,Gillchrist,Ambrose,McGrath,Akram and Murali and even a monkey will win you the series.

In that aspect, i rate the current captains as follows :

1. Fleming
2. Ganguly
3. Vaughan
4. Ponting
5. Atapattu
6. Taibu
7. Inzy
8. Smith

I havn't seen much of Bashar or Chanderpaul, so i cannot comment regarding them.

 

[marc71178]

Point well made mate.

This will be the true test of Vaughan's captaincy ability.

One could say it'll also be a true test of Ponting.

 

[King_Ponting]

Anyway could captain the Australia team, it a no brainer, as shown by how easy it was for Gilchrist to lead the Australian team in Ponting absence.

like when he declared against england and lost australia the game... You are giving no respect to gilchrist and his captaining abilities. If it was shane warne that had captained and the aussies still won in india i would have agreed with u

 

[AndrewM]

It is idiotic to evaluate captaincy by looking at the win-loss ratio.
Fleming is the best captain I've seen since Ranatunga and Taylor....but his side has been ravaged by injuries and have played numerously against topnotch opposition.

By simply looking at win-loss ratio, Viv was a better cappo than Lloyd, Jayasurya was a better kuptain than Ranatunga, Punter is a better skipper than Taylor and Akram was a better cappo than Imran Khan.........which is about as accurate as George Dumbya Bush's WMD claims in 'EYE-rack'.

To win a match, captaincy is secondary to the sheer skillset possessed by the players.
As someone said, a monkey could make this OZ team win and a monkey could make the WI team of the 80s win.
All a captain can do on field is make the right bowling changes, set the field astutely and impliment the plan to the best of his ability. Off field, he has to have the ability to manage egos, inspire youngsters and keep the old veterans motivated. Ie, pretty much be the 'sarge' for everyone to follow.
Beyond that, he cant do anything.
You can be a clairvoyant einstien but if you are stuck with a team composed of my granny, T_C's granny, Richard's granny,Scallywag,TEC's granny, etc., you aint got a snowball's chance in hell to win against the Aussies.

Converesely, make a team inclusive of Sehwag, Langer, Dravid,Punter,Lara,Tendulkar,Gillchrist,Ambrose,McGrath,Akram and Murali and even a monkey will win you the series.

In that aspect, i rate the current captains as follows :

1. Fleming
2. Ganguly
3. Vaughan
4. Ponting
5. Atapattu
6. Taibu
7. Inzy
8. Smith

I havn't seen much of Bashar or Chanderpaul, so i cannot comment regarding them.

Again some sanity prevails. Very well made.
Win loss ratio is misleading as you and i commented before.

 

[AndrewM]

One could say it'll also be a true test of Ponting.

Very true Marc. His biggest challenge to date.

 

[Scallywag]

If that was true then Tendulkar should have been one of the best ever captains

Well thats not quite true because as captain Ponting averages more than Tendulkar in the batting and Ponting in the field is worth three Tendulkars.

 

[C_C]

Ponting in the field is worth three Tendulkars.

Ummm. Tendy can bowl somewhat and get you a breakthrough or two.
Punter cannot.
Tendy isnt as athletic but is quiete a sound catcher..... i dont see how he is worth 3 of tendulkars on the field.

And what has one's personal performance gotto do with how well you are a captain ?
Your job as a captain is towards the TEAM. not yourself. Its like saying 'look i was a successful prime minister coz i became 2x richer while i was in the office'.
Umm.......okkk!

 

[Scallywag]

Off field, he has to have the ability to manage egos, inspire youngsters and keep the old veterans motivated. Ie, pretty much be the 'sarge' for everyone to follow.
Beyond that, he cant do anything.
.

CC how well do you think Ponting has gone keeping old veterans like McGrath and Warne motivated, and how would you rate Pontings efforts to inspire players like clarke and Symonds. How do you think he has managed the egos of players like Lee and MaGill.

But the funny thing is you have nominated Ganguly as the second best captain while he is serving a ban for not being able to captain his team properly. Not to mention his ability to manage Sehwags ego.

 

[AndrewM]

Ummm. Tendy can bowl somewhat and get you a breakthrough or two.
Punter cannot.
Tendy isnt as athletic but is quiete a sound catcher..... i dont see how he is worth 3 of tendulkars on the field.

And what has one's personal performance gotto do with how well you are a captain ?
Your job as a captain is towards the TEAM. not yourself. Its like saying 'look i was a successful prime minister coz i became 2x richer while i was in the office'.
Umm.......okkk!

EXACTLY.

The base of Scallwag's argument has been based around Ponting the player rather than Ponting the captain. It simply has no substance. This thread is about CAPTAINCY. Not how good a captain's core abilities are.

 

[C_C]

CC how well do you think Ponting has gone keeping old veterans like McGrath and Warne motivated, and how would you rate Pontings efforts to inspire players like clarke and Symonds. How do you think he has managed the egos of players like Lee and MaGill.

First, Punter is very new to the job. I cannot put him in the same bracket as Fleming-Ganguly.
Second, as a rule of thumb, the subcontinental teams are the most fractuous lot. What Ganguly has done in terms of team unity can be truly appreciated if you understand the subcontinental cricket politics and egos.
His on-field decision making is merely above average. But this is the one field where nobody challenges Ganguly- his off field capabilities as a captain.

Third, Warne has just returned and might retire pretty soon. Either which way, Punter is too new to the job to comment on motivating Warne.
As per McGrath - he's bowled like he always has. I havnt seen any improvement or any deterioration.

Fourth, given Clarke's rapidly declining average in test cricket, i wouldnt quote him as a beacon for motivation on Ponting's resume.

Fifth,since Lee and McGill dont feature in the team much, i dont think managing it is that much of a big deal.

 

[C_C]

But the funny thing is you have nominated Ganguly as the second best captain while he is serving a ban for not being able to captain his team properly. Not to mention his ability to manage Sehwags ego.

If rules were applied evenly, a lot of aussies would've been banned too.
His job is to his TEAM and it is irrelevant if he gets banned or not, as long as he does his duties for the team properly.
Ganguly has the kind of support in the Indian dressing room that nobody since Pataudi Sr. could command.
And Ganguly didnt have the blue-blood royalty factor to get that extra bit of control.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

One could say it'll also be a true test of Ponting.

I think the real test of Ponting was when Australia was staring down the barrell in three consecutive Sri Lanka tests with the shadow of a series of subcontinent losses in the 90s hanging over his head. Vaughan is already an excellent captain, but the Ashes is the true test of just HOW good he is, and how good he has made his team.

 

[C_C]

True test of Ponting so far was Mumbai 2004......and he didnt do too well....though like i said, he is still learning and is new to the job.
The true test in my opinion would be a match going down to the wire and seeing what sort of bowling changes/field settings Ponting puts up.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

The true test in my opinion would be a match going down to the wire and seeing what sort of bowling changes/field settings Ponting puts up.

Yeah, that's my point. Did you see the Sri Lankan series? He did a masterful job, which is why I rate him the next best captain in the world after Fleming/Ganguly.

It certainly went down to the wire - in all three tests Sri Lanka had a first innings lead, and in the second test they needed just 33 to win with 3 wickets in hand at one point, with Vaas smashing it around on 45. He and Warne did a great job together building pressure, setting the right field and frustrating Vaas into losing his head, then he took Macgill off for Gillespie who picked up Zoysa who is quite a handy batsman, and Warne grabbed the last wicket. It was top notch captaincy.

 

[Scallywag]

EXACTLY.

The base of Scallwag's argument has been based around Ponting the player rather than Ponting the captain. It simply has no substance. This thread is about CAPTAINCY. Not how good a captain's core abilities are.

I think you have gone off track a bit here AndrewM. I am judging Pontings captaincy on his ability to lead the team on the field which also includes what he does. Ponting has managed the Australian team magnificiently keeping them winning and the team playing as one. Examples of this are Lee and Kaspa doing whatever is required for the team knowing that they will get a fair deal from the captain. The australian team is very settled and playing fantastic cricket which is a testament to Pontings ability to keep the oarsmen all rowing in the same direction.

You can also pick up when someone doesnt know much about captaincy when they think a monkey can captain Australia.

 

[Scallywag]

If rules were applied evenly, a lot of aussies would've been banned too.
His job is to his TEAM and it is irrelevant if he gets banned or not, as long as he does his duties for the team properly.
Ganguly has the kind of support in the Indian dressing room that nobody since Pataudi Sr. could command.
And Ganguly didnt have the blue-blood royalty factor to get that extra bit of control.

CC **** off with your "we get picked on because we are asians"

It is sickening listenting to someone continually bring out the race issue for everything.

 

[C_C]

CC **** off with your "we get picked on because we are asians"

It is sickening listenting to someone continually bring out the race issue for everything.

Whether you like it or not, i've shown numerous examples where a similar offence by an aussie has gone unpunished while an asian has been fined/banned.
You assume that justice is fair whereas i dont-since in reality, justice is yet to be fair in the history of mankind.